2021 Comp pick formula has changed.

[45catfan]

14 minutes ago, Pazhoosier89 said:

The actual number to be considered non qualified is actually higher than 1.75 mil and could be closer to 2.5 mil. The article from over the cap explains the changes. Basically any contract not in the top 35% won't be counted.

Comp pick formula changes

 

 

I got it now.  The chances of the 35% CFA threshold being lower than $1.75 million is almost nil.  Teams have to use an 'Excluded' UFA designation in those cases too, if it were ever to come about.

[Black&BlueBubba]

31 minutes ago, Pazhoosier89 said:

The actual number to be considered non qualified is actually higher than 1.75 mil and could be closer to 2.5 mil. The article from over the cap explains the changes. Basically any contract not in the top 35% won't be counted.

Comp pick formula changes

 

 

That’s even better. Interesting how that 50% to 35% May play out.  Article is a good read. Thanks.  
While it looks like we butchered getting any return value for Cam at least we could get the potential max 4 comp picks next year.  
 

[Pazhoosier89]

19 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

That’s even better. Interesting how that 50% to 35% May play out.  Article is a good read. Thanks.  
While it looks like we butchered getting any return value for Cam at least we could get the potential max 4 comp picks next year.  
 

Yeah that is why I wish we would have just given a year with Cam and worse case scenario we let him walk and get a 3rd round comp pick for 2022. By signing Teddy we also lose the 3rd for 2021 as well. 

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Unless it has change with the new CBA, you still have to spend at least 89% of the cap over the course of a multi-year period(cannot recall the exact amount). If that still holds true, booting his contract off the books in the short term(unintentional pun) might not have the positive impact we want. 

I don't care about him soaking up some cap this season or next before he is cut and I doubt anyone is willing to trade for him. 

We've been close enough to the cap the past few years that I don't think we are close to that amount. That's the least of our worries. I'd much rather spend $28.5M on someone worth a damn in 2022. No reason to waste a lot of cap on people who aren't in a long term plan and aren't cheap roster fillers.

[45catfan]

I saw another little nugget in there, a team can get a pick at the end of the 7th round if the net qualifying CFAs is zero.  The last player to offset must have a score of 300 (not sure how they score everything) or higher. 

There is a lot to digest in that comp pick section alone.  I couldn't imagine trying to read and retain the entire CBA.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

I wonder why Kirkwood isn't showing yet?  None of these guys (Roberts, DeValve, Kirkwood) played for more than $1.75 million last year.  Furthermore, I can see several more of these signings before the draft.

I guess the days of $2-$2.5 million FA contracts are over.  Why would a team shoot themselves in the foot like that under the new CBA?  If they think a guy is worth ponying up for it will be for $3+ million per season.  Otherwise they will wait for the market for a player (real or perceived by that player) to wither out and then offer something under $1.75 million.  

This may cause issues down the road.  It may already be what is happening to Robby Anderson now.  He overvalued his market and now just to get signed may have to settle for something under the comp threshold.   He made $3 million per year under his last deal.  If he can't get bite for more, he won't get anything in the $2-$3 million range.  Again, it doesn't make sense for the teams.

Kirkwood was released. That's why he and Miller don't show up.

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

Kirkwood was released. That's why he and Miller don't show up.

Kirkwood was apparently an ERFA that was not tendered. So RFAs and ERFAs not tendered and subsequently acquired doesn't affect the new team's comp pick status.  Yeah, I knew about Miller, but thanks for looking out.  

[Toomers]

11 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We've been close enough to the cap the past few years that I don't think we are close to that amount. That's the least of our worries. I'd much rather spend $28.5M on someone worth a damn in 2022. No reason to waste a lot of cap on people who aren't in a long term plan and aren't cheap roster fillers.

 Yep. Looking further into it, it would be a long time before that 89% came into effect. All that dead money is cash already spent. Teams have routinely carried over 50M or more with smaller caps. There is no good reason to throw away future money on a lost cause. 

  

[Black&BlueBubba]

31 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I saw another little nugget in there, a team can get a pick at the end of the 7th round if the net qualifying CFAs is zero.  The last player to offset must have a score of 300 (not sure how they score everything) or higher. 

There is a lot to digest in that comp pick section alone.  I couldn't imagine trying to read and retain the entire CBA.

With all of this crap Sulimani may be the MVP of this season.  Lol.  Let’s hope he is the Genius he is supposed to be.  

[Jared Patterson]

So what's our situation look like rn?

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

We've been close enough to the cap the past few years that I don't think we are close to that amount. That's the least of our worries. I'd much rather spend $28.5M on someone worth a damn in 2022. No reason to waste a lot of cap on people who aren't in a long term plan and aren't cheap roster fillers.

Cutting him this year would be goofy because it results in $17.4 mil in dead money and generates just $2 mil in cap space. I'd say it is very possible he gets cut next year because the dead money drops to $11 mil and the cap space boost would go up to $9.8 mil. 

We could possibly get some traction on a trade, because his prorated signing bonus(which we would still be on the hook for) is so large. Even still, his cap figure would be relatively high without that bonus being included. I am not against trading him but I just don't think we will have many suitors. 

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Cutting him this year would be goofy because it results in $17.4 mil in dead money and generates just $2 mil in cap space. I'd say it is very possible he gets cut next year because the dead money drops to $11 mil and the cap space boost would go up to $9.8 mil. 

We could possibly get some traction on a trade, because his prorated signing bonus(which we would still be on the hook for) is so large. Even still, his cap figure would be relatively high without that bonus being included. I am not against trading him but I just don't think we will have many suitors. 

So we should spend 13M to save 6M next year. Or for nothing save 2M?  For a player on the decline. How is that financially sound? 
 

    

[Black&BlueBubba]

1 hour ago, Jared Patterson said:

So what's our situation look like rn?

It’s not clear yet.  But we should get at least 3 comp. picks.  Hoping for a forth.    What exact rounds is not known until all the contract details come out. 

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Cutting him this year would be goofy because it results in $17.4 mil in dead money and generates just $2 mil in cap space. I'd say it is very possible he gets cut next year because the dead money drops to $11 mil and the cap space boost would go up to $9.8 mil. 

We could possibly get some traction on a trade, because his prorated signing bonus(which we would still be on the hook for) is so large. Even still, his cap figure would be relatively high without that bonus being included. I am not against trading him but I just don't think we will have many suitors. 

As mentioned above, you are throwing away $13M and you save nothing. I repeat nothing. That dead cap is going to hit our cap space whether Short is on our team or not. The whole "saving" dead cap by keeping a player on the roster is a complete misunderstanding of the cap and contracts. Also, the CBA is signed, so the dead cap can be spread over two years again. That whole one year thing was based on no CBA.

I've posted this before:

Release Short now: Dead Cap $17M - Can be $6M in 2020 and $11M in 2021

Total Cap Hits: 2020 - $6M, 2021 - $11M

Cap Savings - 2020 - $13M, 2021 - $10M

Release Short in 2021: Dead Cap $17M, $6M dead cap in 2020 and $11M in 2021, New Cap $13M

Total Cap Hits: 2020 - $19.5M, 2021 - $11M

Cap Savings - 2020 - Nothing, 2021 - $10M

So, again, keeping him doesn't get rid of the $17M in dead cap that is on Short's contract regardless if he plays with us this year or not. That $6M and $11M this year and next are on the books, regardless if Short is on the team. The new cap Short gets is what we pay him for being on the team. Personally, I'd rather have Short's cap hits be $17M and not $30M.

One last time to make sure this is clear. You do not save any dead cap by having a player on the roster. The dead cap is the difference between money already paid out and what has already hit the salary cap. Since the money has already been paid out, dead cap can never be lowered.