Ego and how the team screwed up the Cam situation

[Pantherzack179812]

7 hours ago, AU-panther said:

A few days ago I made a thread talking about how ego can cause GMs to do stupid things in the draft.  What you have with this current situation is another example of ego dictating direction of the franchise.

Almost everyone on this board knows we most likely aren't winning a Super Bowl next year.  I can't believe I'm saying this but in a lot of ways the fans are more of a realist then the front office.  Once the team got TB to sign they start thinking they can out coach the other teams, and then the GM starts to think he can out GM the other teams and next thing you know you get into this viscous cycle of 8-8.

Here is what should have happened:

First of all with Cam, I would have made it very well known that I wanted him to play out the last year of his contract.  I'll happily spend $19m for one year, to see if my former MVP QB can return to form.  Worst case he plays average and you let him walk next year and get a 3rd comp pick for him, which is looking to be more than we are going to get this year.  If he plays better than average tag him and trade him for even better picks.  If he plays great, then congratulations you have your franchise QB.

If Cam pitches a fit and decides he won't play on a one year deal then that is on him and he looks like the bad guy to a lot of the fan base.  Through all of this you discreetly listen to trade offers and/or let Cam's people look for trades.

In the meantime you get rid of any players on the roster you think aren't living up to their contract.  Turner and Poe apparently

You don't overpay to resign your own guys.  Bradberry

You go slow in free agency and play the comp pick game.  Which we have not done

Speaking of comp picks, I know some people like to discount them since they are 3rd or later, and yes the chance of them being impact players is low, but that isn't the correct way to look at them.  Maybe only 1 out of 4 work out, but that is still one player on your roster on a fixed 4 year deal, that frees up money to spend later.  

Also watch what some teams do, NE especially, they love to use those late round picks to trade for decent proven players on decent contracts.  Its a great way to fill out your roster.  Also you don't use screw up your comp pick ratio by trading players.  Think about this, if we wouldn't have signed Paradis and Hogan last year we would probably have an extra 5th this year.  Maybe we could use that 5th to trade for a veteran center on a decent deal.  

Coaches always think they can win now.  They think they are one player away and that they are smarter than all of the other coaches, that's understandable.  You don't reach the highest level of your profession without being confident.  Your GM on the other hand should be taking the long term view.  In reality your coach and GM shouldn't always agree.

Maybe TB fits our coaches scheme perfect and they turn out to be right.  Personally I think they should have took this year off, and reset the team and just tried to show everyone how smart they are the following year.

 

 

 

Cam is great, that's why the bucca... Oh wait, Cam doesn't have a job. That tells you something.

[raz]

maybe cam will get a job, maybe he won't.   who cares.  he's not playing for us.   we don't know his 'worth' yet.  his worth as a football player is whatever someone will pay him.  the panthers decided he is not worth 19 mil to them.  we'll see what he's worth to someone else.  could be a lot, could be a little, could be nothing.  

[MHS831]

Over the years, I repeatedly said that he was not developing as a pocket passer and I was concerned that Cam was running the football too much.  He was holding the ball too long in the pocket and taking a beating.

Cam wants commitment---I get it-any athlete does. But when has Cam ever been told, "You are no longer good enough?"  He has not earned his current contract--$20m per year--and he wants more money in his 30s?

Cam does not realize that he has hit a wall.  He thinks this is an injury and he will go back to 2017 Cam when healed.  He might, but you pay someone $150m for 5 years for expected production, not hopeful production.

When Cam decided to make that post on social media, he was doing so before the combine, when he knew reporters would be asking Rhule and Hurney about his comment.  My guess?  He was advised to do it--his agent was pressuring management by appealing to the media and fan base.  It could have worked, probably backfired. It may have forced the Bridgewater deal.

[mc52beast]

10 hours ago, Snake said:

I doubt the Cam Huggers will ever admit hes damaged goods. 

This coming from the resident Kyle Hugger

[Mr. Scot]

Couple of things...

The team basically did try to give off the impression that they were going with Newton for the coming season. Some fans bought it. NFL teams didn't though, and they were smart not to do so. It's not like the Panthers are all that great at fooling people, but they certainly gave it a shot..

Behind the scenes, it's pretty obvious now that was never gonna happen.

The team has put it out there that Newton's Instagram video did affect their thinking. I don't really buy it. While it may have annoyed them, I don't actually believe it caused a change of plans. They were clearly ready to move on from him, and if it hadn't been Bridgewater it would have been somebody else (heaven knows there are other options available).

Even with the "commitment" video, signs pointed to Newton being willing to play out the final year of his deal. You could make a pretty good argument that would actually have been better for the Panthers than it would have been for Newton. He was assuming all the risk and the Panthers were guaranteeing him nothing.

But as it turns out, they didn't even want that.

And here we are.

Bottom Line: Doesn't sound like Newton was Joe Brady's guy. Not sure about Rhule, but I'd guess he defers to Brady. And of course there's Tepper, who it was reported has been skeptical of giving Newton another contract pretty much since he got here.

Despite seeming public statements to the contrary, all indications now are that it was just never gonna happen.

[Snake]

4 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

This coming from the resident Kyle Hugger

Nope I'm now a teddy bear hugger. I'm sure you will make a great dolphins fan. 

[Jon Snow]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Couple of things...

The team basically did try to give off the impression that they were going with Newton for the coming season. Some fans bought it. NFL teams didn't though, and they were smart not to do so. It's not like the Panthers are all that great at fooling people, but they certainly gave it a shot..

Behind the scenes, it's pretty obvious now that was never gonna happen.

The team has put it out there that Newton's Instagram video did affect their thinking. I don't really buy it. While it may have annoyed them, I don't actually believe it caused a change of plans. They were clearly ready to move on from him, and if it hadn't been Bridgewater it would have been somebody else (heaven knows there are other options available).

Even with the "commitment" video, signs pointed to Newton being willing to play out the final year of his deal. You could make a pretty good argument that would actually have been better for the Panthers than it would have been for Newton. He was assuming all the risk and the Panthers were guaranteeing him nothing.

But as it turns out, they didn't even want that.

And here we are.

Bottom Line: Doesn't sound like Newton was Joe Brady's guy. Not sure about Rhule, but I'd guess he defers to Brady. And of course there's Tepper, who it was reported has been skeptical of giving Newton another contract pretty much since he got here.

Despite seeming public statements to the contrary, all indications now are that it was just never gonna happen.

Actions speak louder than words.  When it comes to things like this in the NFL I find it better to not listen to what is said between players and an organization.  It's what is not said that are the real clues to what's going on.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Actions speak louder than words.  When it comes to things like this in the NFL I find it better to not listen to what is said between players and an organization.  It's what is not said that are the real clues to what's going on.

Coach speak isn't always a hundred percent lies. it's obviously not a hundred percent truth either. People who can effectively mix lies with the truth tend to be the hardest ones to decipher.

Plenty of NFL coaches and personnel are really good at that.

[Jon Snow]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Coach speak isn't always a hundred percent lies. it's obviously not a hundred percent truth either. People who can effectively mix lies with the truth tend to be the hardest ones to decipher.

Coaches are always vague with there responses even though it may appear a definitive answer.  There will always be wiggle room in their response.  It's always been "if he's healthy we can talk".  Outside of that the only thing they did was talk him up and say things that fans want to hear but always had caveats attached. 

Fans focus on the praise and miss the caveats.  The overwhelming clue as to what the team was thinking was the fact that they had not discussed an extension since Tepper bought the team.  That to me spoke volumes to how Tepper viewed Newton's future with the franchise.  

[RumHam]

Most of you wanted tb last year as insurance. Im more than happy we got who was the prodigy, just not happy what we paid for him but we wouldn't have got him orherwise. Then again if we are 0-16 id rather see whats on the roster and save the money but hurneys ego is ridiculous. We need bpa not a qb and i really hope its jeudy. Lets not fug that up again. We have to outscore opponents

[Khyber53]

10 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Well said, OP.

 And, considering the responses to your post, it seems that the racists and Cam-haters are now the primary Carolina fan-base and Huddle clientele, with all their sheets and boxed wine with’em.

Is it possible to question Cam's current and future capabilities without being either a racist or a Cam-hater?

Asking for a friend, or actually a whole bunch of folks who don't have an agenda past being Panthers fans.

[AU-panther]

11 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Well said, OP.

 And, considering the responses to your post, it seems that the racists and Cam-haters are now the primary Carolina fan-base and Huddle clientele, with all their sheets and boxed wine with’em.

Maybe I did a poor job of wording my post, or people didn't actually read it, or can't comprehend it.

I don't really care if people like Cam or hate Cam, that wasn't the point.  I was speaking more abuot how the front office should have handled this offseason.

I would be the first person to admit that there is no way I would have given Cam an extension this offseason.  I would have either received fair compensation for him via a trade or tried to make him play out the last year of his deal.  As it looks right now we probably aren't going to get much, if anything for him, that's a waste of an asset. 

Once we signed TB we lost leverage, every team in the league knows we aren't going to keep both.

Don't sign a QB in free agency, don't trade up for one in the draft or reach for Herbert or Love.  (I would consider Tua if he falls but I think that is unlikely)

Cam was actually played well last year before he got hurt.  If he starts the majority of next season, and plays relatively well you might get 2 first rounders out of him if you don't think he is perfect for your system, or you decide you don't want to pay him $35m a year.  

I can always sign a TB type of QB next season, or maybe I'm bad enough to get one of the top 2 QBs.

My main points was, everyone knew we were bad, and most likely going to be bad next year.  Everyone knows we should be rebuilding at least for this season.  Once TB agreed to come here people start to think we can win now, so the rebuild gets thrown out of the window. 

Next thing you know we'll be trading up in the draft thinking we are one player away.

I don't really care about going 9-7 next year, my goal would be to build a team that can compete for the ultimate prize every year.

 

 

[rippadonn]

11 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Well said, OP.

 And, considering the responses to your post, it seems that the racists and Cam-haters are now the primary Carolina fan-base and Huddle clientele, with all their sheets and boxed wine with’em.

Not primary but the loudest. They could have treated him like Andrew Luck or let him walk off into the sunset at the end of his contract like Tom Brady.

What they did instead was trash his value in the market, sewed discourse in the fan base by leaking to the media, blindsided his team by not allowing them to find a different situation ahead of a crowded QB market, instead they  treated him like sht.

Most of the fan base doesn't like the tactics and the bad reputation that comes behind that. Most of us aren't cut throat arm chair GMs. We love our team. We love Olsen. We love Cam. We put alot into those guys as a community and they gave more back.

The negative minded folk do not represent the huddle.

[rippadonn]

Cam is under contract. Let him earn his job in training camp. If he can beat out Teddy so be it. He's healthy. Injury to injury both guys are now "damaged goods". See who is better. No emotion.