Panthers showing interest in a QB

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

If Cam is coming back in 2020, then there is no better time to draft a high-upside QB to see what you can do with him.  At worst a backup.  At best, a starter in 2021.  Nobody here knows what it is they see in him or what Brady and Co can do--let's see.

What coach on the Panthers when we drafted a QB has ever shown the ability to develop that QB? 

We just might have that now.  They seem very focused on the QB position now.

 

To be fair, we've only had Jerry Richardson style coaches up to this point.

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, Growl said:

I don't care about will Grier, and I hope that the team isn't considering him in any of their thought processes about the QB position.

What I don't want is for the team to do anything that gives them cause to pat themselves on the back about "addressing the QB situation." What I don't want to is to lose a pick that could be packaged to actually address the QB position, or at the very least, draft a player who may possess some value.

If there's no chance this guy could even be a mid round pick, why is it so important that we draft him at all?

As with TE recently, there is usually one QB from each draft class after day 2 that turns out to be a gem.  Considering 10-12 QBs on average are only drafted each year, the chances of landing that guy is better than say a WR, CB or DL that regularly has 20+ guys drafted each year.

[Growl]

8 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

As with TE recently, there is usually one QB from each draft class after day 2 that turns out to be a gem.  Considering 10-12 QBs on average are only drafted each year, the chances of landing that guy is better than say a WR, CB or DL that regularly has 20+ guys drafted each year.

even if this was true, and it isn't, why would we care?

We have the means to feasibly address the position with actual talent, we don't have to take the big one in a million swing. Again, I don't care about finding a "long term backup."

[45catfan]

4 minutes ago, Growl said:

even if this was true, and it isn't, why would we care?

We have the means to feasibly address the position with actual talent, we don't have to take the big one in a million swing. Again, I don't care about finding a "long term backup."

Lol at a day 3 rookie contract being more lucrative than a FA QB!  Worrying about $1M (high side, btw) on a day 3 pick versus the $2M-$4M, per year, for a veteran QB is funny.  That rookie deal over four years would be less than a tier-2 veteran QB for one.

I still don't see why you are so against a day 3 QB?  The washout rate of day 3 guys is HIGH no matter the position.  You make is sound as QBs are the only position that washes out.  They nearly all do buddy.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Growl said:

there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for a team in our position to take a QB outside the top 10. There's almost no reason for any team to ever do it.

The whole "flip a guy for a higher pick" thing is for teams that have stuff figured out. 

It's a stupid, wasted pick that the team wants to make because NFL jingoists say it's "always a good idea to be developing somebody there."

 But it isn't really. 

If we are an analytics team now, then why are we even considering taking mid to late round Quarterbacks? The analytics say there's no incentive to do so. Maybe its a misdirect to sell the notion we aren't considering an early round QB when in actuality we are, But color me skeptical.

You do realize that most of the NFL starting QB's were not top 10 draft picks, right?

[MHS831]

27 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You do realize that most of the NFL starting QB's were not top 10 draft picks, right?

And to add to this, MOST QBs taken in the top 10 bust.  MOST. 

The hype for QBs is unreal.  Put a good OL in front of an Average Qb with some good WRs and a good RB or two, he can take you to the Bowl.  A good defense is also important because it keeps the QB from having to play from behind (becoming 1 dimensional).  Take a very skilled, highly-touted QB and put him (as a rookie) behind a bad line with a bad defense, and he does not last long.

So go after the skill set you want and refrain from going after a savior.  I think the Panthers are doing it. It looks as if they are addressing the OL some now--it looks as if they are going to address the defense in the draft. 

Look at the decade 2000-2009--These are top 3 QBs drafted (not top 10) picks--I count a 40% outright bust rate, a , 60% bust/ disappointment rate.  The winners?  Manning, Palmer, Ryan, and Stafford. 

2001	Michael Vick	Falcons	1
2002	David Carr	Texans	1
2002	Joey Harrington	Lions	3
2003	Carson Palmer	Bengals	1
2004	Eli Manning	Giants	1
2005	Alex Smith	49ers	1
2006	Vince Young	Titans	3
2007	JaMarcus Russell	Raiders	1
2008	Matt Ryan	Falcons	3
2009	Matthew Stafford	Lions	1

[MHS831]

Basically, if you give me a smart QB who can read defenses quickly and make wise decisions (This QB had a nearly 4-1 TD to INT rate) and can make all the passes, then give him protection, some weapons, and a defense. 

I see nothing wrong with building the support networks before making a QB decision.   Again, bring him in, see what he can do.  I think Marty could go QB in round 3 again.  You don't have to like it.  

The NFL is a copycat league.  The difference between winners and losers is who is doing the copying and who is being copied. Thinking outside the box is how people become great or get fired.  There will be no more mediocre.

[TheRed]

Yeah well we also kind of need to be able to field an actual NFL level defense at some point in the next 2 years. Wasting even more draft resources throwing poo at the wall hoping something sticks on another project quarterback isn't very appealing to some fans. You don't have to like it, but that's the reality.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Was there talk of interest in Jacob Eason or someone similar?

I have no idea.  I know some Huddlers liked him, and the same know-it-alls swooped in to trash him as the worst player to ever see a rectangular field.   Herbert was asked if Carolina talked to him and he refused to comment--then he admitted talking to Josh McDaniels at a later time--praising him and the Pats.

(Brady is not an act I would want to follow)

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Yeah well we also kind of need to be able to field an actual NFL level defense at some point in the next 2 years. Wasting even more draft resources throwing poo at the wall hoping something sticks on another project quarterback isn't very appealing to some fans. You don't have to like it, but that's the reality.

If that is what they are doing, you are right,  but I do not think that is what this staff is doing-- remember how Rhule built his name--he took players that others overlooked.  Nobody was coming to Temple and Baylor was a mess when he got there.  Maybe he has the staff to take skill sets and develop them.  Maybe he sees himself and his staff as coaches who can get good by developing diamonds in the rough---I would not count him out.

But to your point, Marty and RR did just that--throw stuff at the wall and hope it stuck--in the draft and in free agency (See the # of DTs we brought in and drafted, the number of free agent OL we threw at positions, and the number of WRs we could not get to pair with Smitty. 

But to suggest that we are doing that now without trusting what you already know about Rhule is a mistake. 

[tiger7_88]

13 hours ago, RASTAN66 said:

Minshew 2.0.

Zero % chance he ever dons a Panthers uniform.

He does have the key factor that makes a hefty portion of the Panther's fan-base drool, though.

[kungfoodude]

25 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

And to add to this, MOST QBs taken in the top 10 bust.  MOST. 

The hype for QBs is unreal.  Put a good OL in front of an Average Qb with some good WRs and a good RB or two, he can take you to the Bowl.  A good defense is also important because it keeps the QB from having to play from behind (becoming 1 dimensional).  Take a very skilled, highly-touted QB and put him (as a rookie) behind a bad line with a bad defense, and he does not last long.

So go after the skill set you want and refrain from going after a savior.  I think the Panthers are doing it. It looks as if they are addressing the OL some now--it looks as if they are going to address the defense in the draft. 

Look at the decade 2000-2009--These are top 3 QBs drafted (not top 10) picks--I count a 40% outright bust rate, a , 60% bust/ disappointment rate.  The winners?  Manning, Palmer, Ryan, and Stafford. 

2001	Michael Vick	Falcons	1
2002	David Carr	Texans	1
2002	Joey Harrington	Lions	3
2003	Carson Palmer	Bengals	1
2004	Eli Manning	Giants	1
2005	Alex Smith	49ers	1
2006	Vince Young	Titans	3
2007	JaMarcus Russell	Raiders	1
2008	Matt Ryan	Falcons	3
2009	Matthew Stafford	Lions	1

It isn't really hype, per se. It is just that QB is the most important position in the NFL so teams have a tendency to reach out of desperation.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

Watched any footage yet? If so, thoughts?

I have watched some.  Here are my thoughts.

Positives:  Throws all the passes, he reads well, good arm strength, cool in the pocket, good vision, good size, and not a bad athlete in general. He seems to have leadership skills from what I could see.

Negatives:  Tends to under throw deep balls, leans backwards a bit too much when throwing which could impact his vision and maybe slow his delivery), he takes chances, but his TD to int rate is good, he is RAW.

I am not the best person to analyze a QB in the manner I just did, so take it with a grain of salt.  However, there is something there.  Can we develop it?  If Cam stays, yes.

A Thought:  Herbert refused to say when asked if Carolina spoke to him at the combine, but he talked about meeting with the Patriots in a separate interview.  The Cam situation is delicate; are we keeping that end quiet?    If so, this could be simply plan B---draft a guy with a good skill set and develop him for a year behind Cam.  Plan A could be to draft a QB now and trade Cam. 

The next 2 weeks are going to tell us a lot about the QB plans.

[MHS831]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It isn't really hype, per se. It is just that QB is the most important position in the NFL so teams have a tendency to reach out of desperation.

Yes--it is hype on discussion boards, but I said earlier--are we drafting a skill set or a savior?  These teams need "that guy."  So they reach out of desperation.  I mean, even if you look at player rankings, etc.  you tend to see QBs who are actually marginally-good listed in the top 32 some years.  They confuse their skill levels with where they expect to be drafted.