Trai Turner is being shopped around, per ESPN

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Beat me. Listing 6-7 guys, especially when some were rookies and not even on the team is an easy exercise and doesn’t show you the giant holes. Those were rebuild years and hopefully the 2020 crap year will also include a 2020 draft with someone like Smith in it.

Glad you saved me the time to type that out, was about to break that down as well.

Whew.

[stbugs]

40 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Nothing takes that long in the modern NFL, unless your the browns, dolphins, etc. 

I simply disagree. 

Don’t disparage the Dolphins. This looks to be a great draft and they’ve got pick 5, 18, 26, 39 and 56 from all the trades. They’ll have 6 picks in the bank right after we pick our 3rd. They can grab a QB and still get a solid OT and DT in the first.

Bad drafts are why the Browns and Bucs loitered in the basement. It wasn’t culture of losing, it was legitimately bad drafts. Getting Winston and Hargreaves back to back after a horrible year at 1 and 11 is a lot different than getting Cam and Luke back to back at 1 and 9. They went nowhere and we went to the SB.

We need to knock the 2020 draft out of the park and if we get rid of Turner (and Cam?), then starting Grier is like starting Weinke and Clausen. It’ll get us a top spot in 2021 and hopefully we’ve got some talent building and then you’ve got to keep drafting we’ll when you’re in the top 10. 

[onmyown]

21 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

It's easier to assess those teams in hindsight. When we just finished 1-15 in 2001, I doubt anyone looked at that team and said we had a lot of good pieces. Even your list of players is flawed. Witherspoon and Foster were drafted in 2002 so weren't even on the team yet. Steve Smith, Jenkins and Morgan were all rookies in 2001 and at that point we didn't know quite how good they would end up being. Smith in particular barely played receiver as a rookie (10 total receptions) and mainly flashed on special teams. The fact that you have to reach for a player like Hoover, a fan favorite no doubt and will always have one of the all time great performances against Green Bay, but barely topped 400 scrimmage yards in a single year and had less than 1000 yards rushing for his entire 10 year career, should say something.

You could easily argue our current team has more potential than that team flashed at the end of that year. We have former MVP Cam Newton for goodness sake. You can at least pretend he could come back healthy. McCaffrey, is a top 3 offensive skill position player in the entire NFL. Brian Burns flashed all pro potential in limited snaps before getting hurt; we could be talking about him 10 years from now more glowingly than we reflect on anyone of those defensive players you listed from the 2001 team, most of whom were similarly young at the time and hadn't untapped their full potential. Shaq is getting better every year and could easily be as good as most of those players. Short is this generation's Jenkins and could be effective again once healthy. And we haven't even had our offseason or draft to build our core further. And we don't know what effect Rhule will have. All that to say, I would argue this team is just as well primed, if not moreso, to a quick rebuild. Whether it happens will depend on a lot of things, like good drafting, smart offseason pickups and a return to health for Cam. But it's no more unfathomable than it was after that 2001 year.

 

17 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Beat me. Listing 6-7 guys, especially when some were rookies and not even on the team is an easy exercise and doesn’t show you the giant holes. Those were rebuild years and hopefully the 2020 crap year will also include a 2020 draft with someone like Smith in it.

Don’t bother with logic and reality guys, he’s literally one of the worst if not the worst posters on this forum that isn’t a troll. I’m surprised he even remembers 2001 I thought from the way he posts he was a teenager maybe 20. Guess I gave him too much credit.

[pantherclaw]

46 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

I hope you're right Claw.. I just don't like the fact we're creating more holes than ever I've seen before.. My faith in the coach and coaching staff is Meh.. (Due alot to no pro experience) and while I've defended Hurney his decision making is wearing me down.. And Tepper doesn't seem to know when to shut up or say the right things to engender faith...

May I offer you some perspective? 

I believe, with a veteran signal caller, our offense is going to put up points.  I realize our oline severely under performed last season, and right now, it's difficult to see where the improvement for that group is coming from, but I believe Joe Brady has a plan for us. 

Rebuilding the defensive side is always easier. Because good defense comes down to 2 things. Stopping the run, and rushing the passer.  I'm confident we will see that this coming season. 

Championship? No. I expect some struggles, but I don't see a drop to the NFL cellar either. 

 

[trueblade]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

I still, to this day, cannot believe that Marty couldn't see the rebuild coming....just simply cannot believe he didn't see it.

And I say that in response to him restructuring Luke, KK, and Trai...just doesn't make any sense.

Long range planning and strategy have never really been his strong suit.

[Happy Panther]

1 hour ago, WOW!! said:

I'm glad you're young Fuzz but some of us are getting older and aren't really ready for a 6 to 7 year rebuild to relevance.  . 

Please tell me when a total tear down has worked??

Bucs still the Bucs right and they have went thru 3 or 4 regime changes..

https://www.sportscasting.com/times-a-pro-sports-team-rebuild-actually-worked/

[Madwolf]

21 hours ago, (ATL'ien)CamNewton said:

Can't almost anybody be a good Guard .. it's Tackle's that are hard to find

May be we can draft Juedy and he can play Guard then!

[WOW!!]

41 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

It's easier to assess those teams in hindsight. When we just finished 1-15 in 2001, I doubt anyone looked at that team and said we had a lot of good pieces. Even your list of players is flawed. Witherspoon and Foster were drafted in 2002 so weren't even on the team yet. Steve Smith, Jenkins and Morgan were all rookies in 2001 and at that point we didn't know quite how good they would end up being. Smith in particular barely played receiver as a rookie (10 total receptions) and mainly flashed on special teams. The fact that you have to reach for a player like Hoover, a fan favorite no doubt and will always have one of the all time great performances against Green Bay, but barely topped 400 scrimmage yards in a single year and had less than 1000 yards rushing for his entire 10 year career, should say something.

You could easily argue our current team has more potential than that team flashed at the end of that year. We have former MVP Cam Newton for goodness sake. You can at least pretend he could come back healthy. McCaffrey, is a top 3 offensive skill position player in the entire NFL. Brian Burns flashed all pro potential in limited snaps before getting hurt; we could be talking about him 10 years from now more glowingly than we reflect on anyone of those defensive players you listed from the 2001 team, most of whom were similarly young at the time and hadn't untapped their full potential. Shaq is getting better every year and could easily be as good as most of those players. Short is this generation's Jenkins and could be effective again once healthy. And we haven't even had our offseason or draft to build our core further. And we don't know what effect Rhule will have. All that to say, I would argue this team is just as well primed, if not moreso, to a quick rebuild. Whether it happens will depend on a lot of things, like good drafting, smart offseason pickups and a return to health for Cam. But it's no more unfathomable than it was after that 2001 year.

When we're discussing those team we're talking about that offseason... So 2002 (fox 1st year) we're talking about what he had and what he had to build from..  So I only name players he had and what he added to build from when analyzing those years... Fox kept Rucker, Minter and a intact oline .. This team is dam near trying to build from scratch if all reports are true. 

Cam they are not even committed to him... We have no clear plan what they're doing with cam..  And as of right now.. We have to build nearly a whole defense Oline and add more weapons on offense.. Its not the same as 2002, or 2011...

[WOW!!]

30 minutes ago, Happy Panther said:

https://www.sportscasting.com/times-a-pro-sports-team-rebuild-actually-worked/

Come on dog there alot of baseball teams on that list.. The football teams other than the Seahawks have not been putting to many back to back winning seasons or consistency together... Reality the Raiders are still rebuilding ... And if we add context.. This rebuild doesn't look the same as those were... 

Lastly the luck factor in those football  rebuilds were crazy..

Seahawks killed 2 drafts in a row.. Got Wilson in the 3rd after (giving a contract to the greenbay backup who was supposed to be a starter) and Pete had NFL experience and great college success.. His resume was better than Rhules...

[WOW!!]

I never said the 2001 team or the 2010 team were stacked.. My only argument was they were building from a different stand point then this team is "at this point in time".. Things could change once we actually see a direction... But right now...

It looks like they want a new QB, redo the whole defense and add more weapons... Most of the fan base feels they might need to replace 4 Olinemen as well..

Fox atleast had most of his trench players intact.. Years of NFL experiences on his staff including himself.. The number 2 pick that year and I don't remember the cap situation...

Rivera 1st year had 4 to 5 former pro bowlers.. His trenches had less question Mark's then this one.. And he had the number 1 pick in the upcoming draft...

I don't see this situation as being close to the same as those..

[Basbear]

19 hours ago, stbugs said:

Maybe, but don’t fret. This is a full rebuild. We won’t fill all the holes this year, but it will be good to get more picks and save some money for future.

Yea Im just super frustrated. Herniay staying GM and ALL the BS Baylor hires, I had enough. Panthers got 20-25 holes and trading lazy/good RG makes another giant hole. I learned the hard way by trying 10 mock drafts, just impossible to fill all the needs. UDFAs will get real snaps on this roster.

I did heard today ALL former gettleman picks are available for trade now, Herniay is taking a old page out of the politics playbook and blaming the last person in charge. 

[Mvp2014]

Seriously?  Trai Turner’s lazy ass is where you draw the line?  

[TheSpecialJuan]

CBS' Jason La Canfora reports there is trade interest Jaguars LG Andrew Norwell and C Brandon Linder.

However, La Canfora adds "return likely not great." Norwell has been a bust relative to the massive free agent contract he signed in 2018. Releasing him would create $5.5 million in cap space but leave behind $9 million in dead money. Still only 28 years old, Linder is signed through 2022. He remained solid in 2019

[Tbe]

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

I did heard today ALL former gettleman picks are available for trade now, Herniay is taking a old page out of the politics playbook and blaming the last person in charge. 

So CMC, Samuel, and Moton huh?