Defensive Back

[Pantherzack179812]

DB has been the 2nd thorn in our side behind offensive line. I do not want to spend 3-4 years going through Josh Norman 2.0 by letting go Bradberry. Franchise tag him and just pay the 1 year and if he puts up similar numbers to 2019 early on, sign him. 15 million is not that much different then 12 million, I'm not ready to field a secondary with Donte Jackson as our #1 corner. Josh Norman would do well returning here, but then he is now 5 years older from when he was last REALLY successful here, he probably isn't a #1 corner anymore. I can take just about anything, but I am not ready to see another O-Line and Defensive Back pooshow, last time we made this decision we set the record for most receiving yards given up in a game. Bradberry's stats aren't as high, but most DBs don't defend Michael Thomas, Julio Jones, and Mike Evens 2 times each a year. Norman was a pick monster, Bradberry forces the #2 WR to beat us (Michael Thomas, Julio, or Mike Evens weren't destroying us this year). 

[davos]

I mean, we have an entire FA and Draft upcoming.  No need to get any heartburn until we see what we do here.  There's some decent zone CB FA talent that will not be as expensive as Bradberry. 

We've currently got Jackson, Luke, Elder, and some dude named Dominique Hatfield.  Definitely need help but Bradberry won't be the only option.  Realistically see min. (2) guys being added either via FA or Draft.  Maybe we re-sign Cockrell as well. 

[Pantherzack179812]

Just now, davos said:

I mean, we have an entire FA and Draft upcoming.  No need to get any heartburn until we see what we do here.  There's some decent zone CB FA talent that will not be as expensive as Bradberry. 

We've currently got Jackson, Luke, Elder, and some dude named Dominique Hatfield.  Definitely need help but Bradberry won't be the only option.  Realistically see min. (2) guys being added either via FA or Draft.  Maybe we re-sign Cockrell as well. 

Dontari Poe was supposed to be an upgrade over Star for 3 million less. #1 cbs are like taking away your QB of the defensive backs away, LBs are great, but CBs have been a MAJOR problem on our defense for years. I'd rather take the sure thing that is already here for 4 million more. You're not getting a comparable CB to Bradberry for 8 million.

[Basbear]

Its DL start right now, Burns and ?????? at edge. DT is lazy KK, high salary/could be cut at any point POE, and ?????

OL at least has Little, Moton, Turner, Daley as young talented players.

DB needs attention given Reid and DJack is all thats there too. 

[Pantherzack179812]

1 minute ago, Basbear said:

Its DL start right now, Burns and ?????? at edge. DT is lazy KK, high salary/could be cut at any point POE, and ?????

OL at least has Little, Moton, Turner, Daley as young talented players.

DB needs attention given Reid and DJack is all thats there too. 

Are we just giving up on signing Addison? 

I think Gerald McCoy comes back if we pull out the checkbook.

We will have to kick the can to win in 2020, it's the truth, but it makes no sense to bring Cam back with a top 10 draft pick type team.

Poe doesn't net enough savings IMO to make it worth cutting him. The defense fell apart after KK got hurt vs Tampa in London, we held Watson to zero TDs with him.

If McCoy gets 1 year 12 million, Bradberry tags for 16 million that gives us 7 million left in cash. We will have to renegotiate, having a numbers guy like Tepper could help us minimize the hit like the Saints have found out. 

[musicman]

24 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

DB has been the 2nd thorn in our side behind offensive line. I do not want to spend 3-4 years going through Josh Norman 2.0 by letting go Bradberry. Franchise tag him and just pay the 1 year and if he puts up similar numbers to 2019 early on, sign him. 15 million is not that much different then 12 million, I'm not ready to field a secondary with Donte Jackson as our #1 corner. Josh Norman would do well returning here, but then he is now 5 years older from when he was last REALLY successful here, he probably isn't a #1 corner anymore. I can take just about anything, but I am not ready to see another O-Line and Defensive Back pooshow, last time we made this decision we set the record for most receiving yards given up in a game. Bradberry's stats aren't as high, but most DBs don't defend Michael Thomas, Julio Jones, and Mike Evens 2 times each a year. Norman was a pick monster, Bradberry forces the #2 WR to beat us (Michael Thomas, Julio, or Mike Evens weren't destroying us this year). 

What part of rebuild do you not understand. They are not worried about winning this year but building a team that will in the "hopefully" near future. He's gonna walk. It's a waste of money is rebuilding time period. Sorry. Donte, Ross and a draft pick are your 3 CB's next year. 

[Pantherzack179812]

9 minutes ago, musicman said:

What part of rebuild do you not understand. They are not worried about winning this year but building a team that will in the "hopefully" near future. He's gonna walk. It's a waste of money is rebuilding time period. Sorry. Donte, Ross and a draft pick are your 3 CB's next year. 

Then cut  Cam Newton and front-load contracts. That's the part I don't understand. Cam has no chance to prove ANYTHIG on the team without drastic changes.

[Basbear]

22 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

Are we just giving up on signing Addison? 

I think Gerald McCoy comes back if we pull out the checkbook.

We will have to kick the can to win in 2020, it's the truth, but it makes no sense to bring Cam back with a top 10 draft pick type team.

Poe doesn't net enough savings IMO to make it worth cutting him. The defense fell apart after KK got hurt vs Tampa in London, we held Watson to zero TDs with him.

If McCoy gets 1 year 12 million, Bradberry tags for 16 million that gives us 7 million left in cash. We will have to renegotiate, having a numbers guy like Tepper could help us minimize the hit like the Saints have found out. 

Addison has about a 0.00578% chance of coming back. Same for Mccoy, I dont think you realized the current rebuild of this panther team. They seem to be looking at younger players and not the Vets like the former group. McCoy, Addison, Olsen, anyone over 28 years old is not in the plans. Jordan Gross said its a 5 year plan when asked about free agency. Tepper even sent out a warning to PSL holders about sticking with the team during this rebuilding process. 

I mean its possible they could come out winning and make the play-offs, odds are super stacked against that happening tho.

 

[Pantherzack179812]

2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Addison has about a 0.00578% chance of coming back. Same for Mccoy, I dont think you realized the current rebuild of this panther team. They seem to be looking at younger players and not the Vets like the former group. McCoy, Addison, Olsen, anyone over 28 years old is not in the plans. Jordan Gross said its a 5 year plan when asked about free agency. Tepper even sent out a warning to PSL holders about sticking with the team during this rebuilding process. 

I mean its possible they could come out winning and make the play-offs, odds are super stacked against that happening tho.

 

But that's the point, Cam Newton coming back on a 1-year-deal to a team Tepper says to brace yourself for makes no sense. Cam HAS to do well this year, or next year his worth could be REALLY close to ZERO. Bringing back Cam gives the signal we're going to try to win, Cam would want an extension to play on the team you just described. 

I 100% understand what you said. 2+2=4, not 5.  Cam on a 1 year deal X young team that will win Zero still = 0.  Cam is not risking the rest of his career to play on a rebuilding team on a 1 year deal, he has EVERYTHING to lose. 

 

[Basbear]

2 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

But that's the point, Cam Newton coming back on a 1-year-deal to a team Tepper says to brace yourself for makes no sense. Cam HAS to do well this year, or next year his worth could be REALLY close to ZERO. Bringing back Cam gives the signal we're going to try to win, Cam would want an extension to play on the team you just described. 

I 100% understand what you said. 2+2=4, not 5.  Cam on a 1 year deal X young team that will win Zero still = 0.  Cam is not risking the rest of his career to play on a rebuilding team on a 1 year deal, he has EVERYTHING to lose. 

 

Cam is a topic in a topic in topic. My honest opinion is they wanted to move Cam and made some calls......He was not in demand in those calls. Cams group heard about this and had a meeting/s with the panthers leadership group. Soon afterwards they gave the "ok" for Cams group to gauge his real value to other teams. Both came to the same answer, hes better off staying here. Cams got a value in his head about his worth, panthers have theirs, and teams have theirs. In the real world it seems a QB with 2 seasons finished on IR, nearly 2,000 RB carries, a lisfranc foot, 2x shoulder injury, age 31 doesnt have the same value when the draft is here and the overall QB market has other options that dont cost draft picks....

[Pantherzack179812]

2 hours ago, Basbear said:

Cam is a topic in a topic in topic. My honest opinion is they wanted to move Cam and made some calls......He was not in demand in those calls. Cams group heard about this and had a meeting/s with the panthers leadership group. Soon afterwards they gave the "ok" for Cams group to gauge his real value to other teams. Both came to the same answer, hes better off staying here. Cams got a value in his head about his worth, panthers have theirs, and teams have theirs. In the real world it seems a QB with 2 seasons finished on IR, nearly 2,000 RB carries, a lisfranc foot, 2x shoulder injury, age 31 doesnt have the same value when the draft is here and the overall QB market has other options that dont cost draft picks....

But if the team doesn't want Cam, 19 million isn't pennies, you can front-load contracts where they're cheaper in the future. You can even carry the cap into a future year, keeping Cam and putting a weak team around him benefits nobody but him. 

[45catfan]

Most mocks I have a us grabbing CB, S or both.   I DO NOT want to overpay for Tre Boston.  He's a legend in his own mind.  Tre's an adequate starter, but nothing special.

[Pantherzack179812]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Most mocks I have a us grabbing CB, S or both.   I DO NOT want to overpay for Tre Boston.  He's a legend in his own mind.  Tre's an adequate starter, but nothing special.

We played the start the rookie cb game, it didn't work. This is literally Josh Norman all over again.

[Soul Rebel]

This is a perfect year to be frugal on the FA market and use this deep, deep draft class to your advantage. The draft is loaded with stud, franchise players in the top-10 and you can get a 2nd round talent in the late third at some positions.

I think re-signing Cockrell, either drafting Okudah if he slips or moving back a few picks and getting an extra 2nd rounder would go a long way in re-solidifying our defense with young, cheaper talent as a core.

JB is good and was stout for us, but is in no way, shape or form worth $15M to a team with as many holes as we have. We should walk away with one of Okudah, Brown, Simmons, or Kinlaw in the first.