Carolina sticking with Cam

[rippadonn]

21 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

y'all are crazy if you think cam can be what he once was. he's a stopgap at this point, plain and simple.

 

If he was a free agent and the kid we drafted three years ago turned out to be weak sauce, any one of these free agents could be a potential good stop-gap or franchise QB again.

If Drew Brees (shoulder) and Teddy Bridgewater (knee/hip) can be what they once were why am I betting Cam won't? If this team could focus on rebuilding the defense this year that would be great. Luke is gone. Defense is even more important now.

[stbugs]

5 hours ago, Navy_football said:

Curious...

What example is there of a team that actually tanked and won the Super Bowl within 5 years (rookie option period)? 

I'm looking for trading/cutting all of their talented vets, including their franchise QB. 

We did tank twice and we got to the Super Bowl within 5 years. We just lost both SBs. Cowboys went 3-13 and 1-15 and in Aikman’s 4th year won the first of 3 SBs in 4 years. Not quite sure if this fits, but the Giants were 4-12 and 6-10 and traded up to #1 for Eli and won a SB in his 4th year. Indy has had some bad years to back into Manning and Luck. They made the playoffs 6 of Manning’s first 8 years but didn’t win the SB until year 9 and Luck never got to a SB.

I’m sure there’s plenty of good tank turn arounds but qualifying it with winning a SB makes it a lot harder. That said I’m going off examples where I knew the teams had a really bad season or two to get a QB at the top of the draft. Even more examples of SB wins/losses early like Wentz and Mahomes and Goff where teams spent like crazy on FAs/resignings due to rookie QB deals.

Trying to bring the Browns into the equation like a couple posts above is lazy. Ooh, tanking kills the culture and we’ll be the Browns. The Browns were the Browns because the took horrible 1st round picks and missed a ton of good talent.

We went to the SB twice. Both of those runs were 100% because we tanked. It’s funny how our great 2015 culture and icons are due to a 2010 tank and people in here want to compare a 2020 tank to the Browns when we’ve tanked almost every 10 years and are due for one. Limping along is more likely for us to become the Browns. 

[Navy_football]

35 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We did tank twice and we got to the Super Bowl within 5 years. We just lost both SBs. Cowboys went 3-13 and 1-15 and in Aikman’s 4th year won the first of 3 SBs in 4 years. Not quite sure if this fits, but the Giants were 4-12 and 6-10 and traded up to #1 for Eli and won a SB in his 4th year. Indy has had some bad years to back into Manning and Luck. They made the playoffs 6 of Manning’s first 8 years but didn’t win the SB until year 9 and Luck never got to a SB.

I’m sure there’s plenty of good tank turn arounds but qualifying it with winning a SB makes it a lot harder. That said I’m going off examples where I knew the teams had a really bad season or two to get a QB at the top of the draft. Even more examples of SB wins/losses early like Wentz and Mahomes and Goff where teams spent like crazy on FAs/resignings due to rookie QB deals.

Trying to bring the Browns into the equation like a couple posts above is lazy. Ooh, tanking kills the culture and we’ll be the Browns. The Browns were the Browns because the took horrible 1st round picks and missed a ton of good talent.

We went to the SB twice. Both of those runs were 100% because we tanked. It’s funny how our great 2015 culture and icons are due to a 2010 tank and people in here want to compare a 2020 tank to the Browns when we’ve tanked almost every 10 years and are due for one. Limping along is more likely for us to become the Browns. 

The Panthers didn't tank in either SB. 2003 was only their 9th season in existence. They just lucked up with a 3rd punt returner that became a nightmare for cornerbacks and a free agent quarterback from New Orleans. We got Cam because Pickles was historically bad. No one expected that. Other than him, the team was not bad at all. Granted we had a lame duck coach, but we weren't trying to lose. 

The Cowboys capitalized off of the greatest trade in NFL history with Herschel Walker to the Vikes. They weren't tanking. The Vikings were just stupid.

[Toomers]

44 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We did tank twice and we got to the Super Bowl within 5 years. We just lost both SBs. Cowboys went 3-13 and 1-15 and in Aikman’s 4th year won the first of 3 SBs in 4 years. Not quite sure if this fits, but the Giants were 4-12 and 6-10 and traded up to #1 for Eli and won a SB in his 4th year. Indy has had some bad years to back into Manning and Luck. They made the playoffs 6 of Manning’s first 8 years but didn’t win the SB until year 9 and Luck never got to a SB.

I’m sure there’s plenty of good tank turn arounds but qualifying it with winning a SB makes it a lot harder. That said I’m going off examples where I knew the teams had a really bad season or two to get a QB at the top of the draft. Even more examples of SB wins/losses early like Wentz and Mahomes and Goff where teams spent like crazy on FAs/resignings due to rookie QB deals.

Trying to bring the Browns into the equation like a couple posts above is lazy. Ooh, tanking kills the culture and we’ll be the Browns. The Browns were the Browns because the took horrible 1st round picks and missed a ton of good talent.

We went to the SB twice. Both of those runs were 100% because we tanked. It’s funny how our great 2015 culture and icons are due to a 2010 tank and people in here want to compare a 2020 tank to the Browns when we’ve tanked almost every 10 years and are due for one. Limping along is more likely for us to become the Browns. 

  I forgot about those Cowboys. Jimmy Johnson tanked hard his first year even after taking Aikman. Played almost all young guys and it turned into a dynasty. Well done. 

[mc52beast]

If I was Cam I wouldn’t want to be any part of a rebuild. He could easily be mid 30’s before the team is any good. Play the contract out and move on.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

The Panthers didn't tank in either SB. 2003 was only their 9th season in existence. They just lucked up with a 3rd punt returner that became a nightmare for cornerbacks and a free agent quarterback from New Orleans. We got Cam because Pickles was historically bad. No one expected that. Other than him, the team was not bad at all. Granted we had a lame duck coach, but we weren't trying to lose. 

The Cowboys capitalized off of the greatest trade in NFL history with Herschel Walker to the Vikes. They weren't tanking. The Vikings were just stupid.

You seem to think “tanking” is players throwing games. It’s just not using all your Available assets in a certain year. Every player is trying to win. It’s just unlikely with inferior talent. 
 

   And the Cowboys absolutely tanked in JJs first year. And they were a lot more than that one trade. Great drafting was the main reason. 
 

 I keep asking what’s the option if Cam is gone or just plain not healthy. What’s the plan for the team going forward that makes them a contender faster. 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

All I see are people doubting Cam like they have his entire career, but it's especially sad to see the people who once called themselves "fans" turn on him like the lot of you have. Just read these comments. It's embarrassing to be a Panthers fan at the current moment represented by a fan base such as this. Can't wait for Cam to serve you fools endless helpings of crow when he balls out next year and signs an extension with the Panthers. Gonna go ahead and bookmark this thread.

I for one cannot WAIT to see what Cam does with some legit offensive coaching and playmakers around him. He's going to have one of his best seasons next year. Gone are the days of SHULA ball. This was by FAR this best decision Rhule and Tepper could have made going forward.

[steven8989]

6 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

All I see are people doubting Cam like they have his entire career, but it's especially sad to see the people who once called themselves "fans" turn on him like the lot of you have. Just read these comments. It's embarrassing to be a Panthers fan at the current moment represented by a fan base such as this. Can't wait for Cam to serve you fools endless helpings of crow when he balls out next year and signs an extension with the Panthers. Gonna go ahead and bookmark this thread.

I for one cannot WAIT to see what Cam does with some legit offensive coaching and playmakers around him. He's going to have one of his best seasons next year. Gone are the days of SHULA ball. This was by FAR this best decision Rhule and Tepper could have made going forward.

Yep because they have already made the decision. SMH, people can't read between the lines. 

[rippadonn]

Rhule drew HIS line. He wants the opportunity to resurrect the MVP. Rhule recently stated that maybe as a new system/coach that perhaps his time to strike is now before the NFL catches up.

Rhule understands that Cam makes his job easier. He wants #1 to heal to see what he can get out of the MVP and WIN games. That's what coaches want. Why not smack the NFCS? The defense needs MAJOR help. Start there.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, rippadonn said:

If he was a free agent and the kid we drafted three years ago turned out to be weak sauce, any one of these free agents could be a potential good stop-gap or franchise QB again.

If Drew Brees (shoulder) and Teddy Bridgewater (knee/hip) can be what they once were why am I betting Cam won't? If this team could focus on rebuilding the defense this year that would be great. Luke is gone. Defense is even more important now.

Brees is a terrible example. His “shoulder surgery” cost him 0 games. He missed no time. In fact he missed 1 game in the 10 years after his surgery. Cam missed 17 games in 4 years (honestly should have missed more) and didn’t finished 3 of the 4 years and has had multiple surgeries. Even Bridgewater is a bad example. He had a horrific leg injury but it was just that one injury and he’s fully recovered from it.

We have no idea what Cam’s going to be like this year. That was the worst part of the news. Months away and mentioning September knowing that we thought he’d be passing a physical in March.

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Brees is a terrible example. His “shoulder surgery” cost him 0 games. He missed no time. In fact he missed 1 game in the 10 years after his surgery. Cam missed 17 games in 4 years (honestly should have missed more) and didn’t finished 3 of the 4 years and has had multiple surgeries. Even Bridgewater is a bad example. He had a horrific leg injury but it was just that one injury and he’s fully recovered from it.

We have no idea what Cam’s going to be like this year. That was the worst part of the news. Months away and mentioning September knowing that we thought he’d be passing a physical in March.

  June and September shouldn’t have been a part of that. Everyone is focused on them “liking” Cam, and dismissing those frightening dates mentioned. 
    
  

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, Navy_football said:

The Panthers didn't tank in either SB. 2003 was only their 9th season in existence. They just lucked up with a 3rd punt returner that became a nightmare for cornerbacks and a free agent quarterback from New Orleans. We got Cam because Pickles was historically bad. No one expected that. Other than him, the team was not bad at all. Granted we had a lame duck coach, but we weren't trying to lose. 

The Cowboys capitalized off of the greatest trade in NFL history with Herschel Walker to the Vikes. They weren't tanking. The Vikings were just stupid.

I don’t have a subscription to the Athletic but I believe this is the article where Gross said we tanked in 2010 and got rid of everyone that didn’t fit a five year plan. Stop being naive that we were just bad both times and stop acting like the Cowboys didn’t do the same. We got Peppers, Gross, Cam and Kuechly in the first two drafts after the tank year at 2, 8, 1 and 9. Think we wouldn’t have different results if we were 8-8 in the years before those drafts?

Steve Smith and Herschel Walker helped, they weren’t the reason. You need some good luck to turn a rebuild into a SB run and you also need those great draft picks that come from tanks.

Even if I say I want to tank the team will never say that even though Tepper’s letter to PSL owners basically admits we’ll be extra bad this year.

[Call Me James]

A healthy cam Newton speeds up any rebuild. 

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

You seem to think “tanking” is players throwing games. It’s just not using all your Available assets in a certain year. Every player is trying to win. It’s just unlikely with inferior talent. 
 

   And the Cowboys absolutely tanked in JJs first year. And they were a lot more than that one trade. Great drafting was the main reason. 
 

 I keep asking what’s the option if Cam is gone or just plain not healthy. What’s the plan for the team going forward that makes them a contender faster. 

Yep. Amazing that people can’t separate letting your FAs go/not signing big money FAs/acquiring draft picks from creating a losing culture and players not trying. You can tank by knowingly using inexperienced and less talented guys while you try to acquire more talent through the draft/higher draft slots.

Jordan Gross admitted we tanked in 2010, but that’s not good enough because that would invalidate the tanking/full rebuild = loser’s mentality/being the Browns. We’ve been the Browns. We had the 2nd worst OL and the 2nd worst D last year. We’re 1-15 the past two second halves with that one win when NO didn’t care and sat Brees.