(Updated) Combine: Let's talk prospects

[mrcompletely11]

5 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Absolutely no way Love drops that far short of a horrifically bad Combine and/or Pro day.  I've seen Big Boards already having Love leap frogging Herbert.

Yeah you are probably right, his early report says he is a big athletic kid with a howitzer arm.   Somebody is going to fall in love with him

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Yeah you are probably right, his early report says he is a big athletic kid with a howitzer arm.   Somebody is going to fall in love with him

Big arms get QBs overdrafted more than anything else. Probably more than everything else combined.

[45catfan]

I'm keeping my eye on the FIU QB James Morgan.  Traditional pocket QB with a hair-trigger release and a big arm.  Not Josh Allen big, but really good.  He's a late round prospect now, and hopefully he stays there.  I wouldn't go higher than the 6th for him considering all our roster needs.  Transferred midway through his college career form one mid-major school to another, neither program noteworthy.  He has touch, good anticipation, nice deep ball, arm strength for deep out routes and can thread the needle with velocity when needed. Grew up in Green Bay idolizing Favre and Rogers; has a similar gunslinger mentality. I see a diamond in the rough with him.  Joe Brady could work wonders with a guy like him.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm terrified of the thought of Hurney trading next year's 1st. It wouldn't be the first time. Or the second.

Next year’s first better fuging be 100% off limits. It’s going to likely be a top 5 pick and could be #1. Even if you like a rookie QB so much that you’d be willing to trade Lawrence or Fields, there’s no one worth moving up for to give up that bounty. I think if that happens, I’ll just be done with this team because I will 100% know that Hurney’s got too much control and we will be the Browns.

[45catfan]

I'll also be looking at NTs.  If we draft Brown, I think he's better suited for a 3-tech.  Fotu and Roy are a couple of guys in rounds 3-5 that I like to pair with Brown.  Gettleman's one stoke of genius is when he double dipped with Star and KK.  Our interior was set for several years.  That needs to happen again.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Absolutely no way Love drops that far short of a horrifically bad Combine and/or Pro day.  I've seen Big Boards already having Love leap frogging Herbert.

That’s funny because in an apples to apples Senior Bowl, Herbert supposedly was by far the top QB and Love was there. I don’t see how Love passed Herbert. There’s so many big boards and these guys intentionally make controversial boards to get clicks and so that if the guy is a hit they can say they called it.

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

That’s funny because in an apples to apples Senior Bowl, Herbert supposedly was by far the top QB and Love was there. I don’t see how Love passed Herbert. There’s so many big boards and these guys intentionally make controversial boards to get clicks and so that if the guy is a hit they can say they called it.

Anticipation of Love blowing up at the Combine.  Love has a better arm and while not wildly more athletic than Herbert, is the better athlete of the two.  Senior Bowl is still a team event, the Combine is where you shine as an individual player.  Again, draft-nicks are banking that Love will mesmerize some folks.

[stbugs]

5 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Anticipation of Love blowing up at the Combine.  Love has a better arm and while not wildly more athletic than Herbert, is the better athlete of the two.  Senior Bowl is still a team event, the Combine is where you shine as an individual player.  Again, draft-nicks are banking that Love will mesmerize some folks.

Sort of a team event. Teams watch and report on every practice as well. Lots of very similar drills. In the game only Herbert and Gordon really impressed. Love had a decent week of practice but nowhere near the kudos of Herbert. If Love goes near Herbert, that’s a big reach on potential. Taking him at 7 is a huge mistake and I really hope we don’t trade back up into the 1st to get him.

There’s a 4th QB drafted every year, usually in the 2nd. Derek Carr is the best one in the past 20 years. The rest are backups or never made its. The next best in 2003 was Rex Grossman. You have to go back to the 1990s and prior and actually back to find Daunte Culpepper, Kordell Stewart and Mark Brunell. In the 80s, it was only Jim Harbaugh. Outside of the 1990s, the other 3 decades saw 0 or 1 truly successful QBs picked 4th and even then we aren’t talking elite QBs.

Trading up for the 4th QB or taking one at 7 is historically a really bad move. I hope the analytics team is working on the draft. We clearly weren’t when we traded up last year for tackle #6 (based on our pick/tanking, probably tackle 8-10 on most) instead of taking center #2.

[45catfan]

16 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Sort of a team event. Teams watch and report on every practice as well. Lots of very similar drills. In the game only Herbert and Gordon really impressed. Love had a decent week of practice but nowhere near the kudos of Herbert. If Love goes near Herbert, that’s a big reach on potential. Taking him at 7 is a huge mistake and I really hope we don’t trade back up into the 1st to get him.

There’s a 4th QB drafted every year, usually in the 2nd. Derek Carr is the best one in the past 20 years. The rest are backups or never made its. The next best in 2003 was Rex Grossman. You have to go back to the 1990s and prior and actually back to find Daunte Culpepper, Kordell Stewart and Mark Brunell. In the 80s, it was only Jim Harbaugh. Outside of the 1990s, the other 3 decades saw 0 or 1 truly successful QBs picked 4th and even then we aren’t talking elite QBs.

Trading up for the 4th QB or taking one at 7 is historically a really bad move. I hope the analytics team is working on the draft. We clearly weren’t when we traded up last year for tackle #6 (based on our pick/tanking, probably tackle 8-10 on most) instead of taking center #2.

You think analytics matters more than Hurney's gut feeling?  I kid.  For one, I have no desire to draft any QB in round one this year.  Secondly, the only interest I have in this Hebert/Love discussion is to trade back if the opportunity presented itself.  That's only going to happen if some team falls in Love.  If Herbert comes out of Combine without hurting his stock and Love looks pedestrian, I suspect nothing will happen.  However, if Love wows and we get a hotly contested QB3 debate, then I could see teams 6-10 getting some phone calls about trading out of their spot.

[Toomers]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Anticipation of Love blowing up at the Combine.  Love has a better arm and while not wildly more athletic than Herbert, is the better athlete of the two.  Senior Bowl is still a team event, the Combine is where you shine as an individual player.  Again, draft-nicks are banking that Love will mesmerize some folks.

 QBs rarely “shine” at the combine due to lack of work with the WRs. Scouts aren’t concerned with 20-30 throws there. Especially when every QB gets a Pro Day for them to evaluate. 
 

  If he jumps up after the combine, it will be more because of interviews and board work. 

[Snake]

8 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I have a funny feeling they move back up in the first to snag a guy that may be dropping.  2 mocks this morning have us trading for NE first and getting Love.  

We have so many holes trading up might be a bad idea. We will no doubt be picking in the top 10 next year too. 

[davos]

Another mid-round offensive lineman to consider: Ben Bartch

*A mid round lineman will come with analysis on the negative but I find a lot correctable.  Great size. 

Quote

Bartch grew up in Oregon but family ties to the Twin Cities led him to sign with the annually successful Division III Johnnies. He came to Minnesota as a tight end and played the position for two years; he played in one game in 2016 and eight contests in 2017 (four receptions, 43 yards, 10.8 per, one touchdown). Before the 2018 season, however, Bartch moved to left tackle. He started all 13 games in his first year at the position, earning second-team All-Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference honors. Bartch continued growing into his frame during his senior year, earning the eyes of MIAC coaches to garner first-team all-league and Offensive Lineman of the Year honors in 14 starts at left tackle.

 

 

 

Quote

Overview

Converted tight end who has added 75 pounds of good weight since stepping on campus but retained his plus movement. Despite a lack of experience and small-school background, his traits and rapid growth in body and play caught the eye of Senior Bowl evaluators. From a skill standpoint, he's still an undergrad, but on pace for his degree in tackle studies. He's an enticing left tackle prospect who continues to evolve, but a step up in competition and a need for continued physical development will require patience and could determine whether his final calling is swing tackle or starter.

 

Strengths

• Converted tight end with plenty of athletic ability
• Ran 110-meter hurdles and 4x400 relays in high school
• Scouts love background in college shot put and discus due to explosion benefits
• Easy, speedy slide quickness in pass pro and second-level adjustments
• Can burst out of stance and take off laterally
• Accelerates with some pop into down blocks
• Flexion in knees/ankles offer building blocks to anchor
• Natural mirroring talent to stay in front of rushers
• Inside hand is stiff and upward in his punch
• Reactive ability to combat rush counters

Weaknesses

• Very limited experience at the position
• Faces a very steep step up in size and competition
• Narrow two-point stance may need to be altered
• Is a little behind with timing and angles to second level
• Body needs additional development and strength
• Push-pull power counters tug him out of balance
• Inconsistent hand work sustaining angle blocks at times
• Balance and body positioning get away from him when he becomes impatient

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ben-bartch?id=32194241-5272-0314-6867-3573699ef57d

[stbugs]

3 hours ago, 45catfan said:

You think analytics matters more than Hurney's gut feeling?  I kid.  For one, I have no desire to draft any QB in round one this year.  Secondly, the only interest I have in this Hebert/Love discussion is to trade back if the opportunity presented itself.  That's only going to happen if some team falls in Love.  If Herbert comes out of Combine without hurting his stock and Love looks pedestrian, I suspect nothing will happen.  However, if Love wows and we get a hotly contested QB3 debate, then I could see teams 6-10 getting some phone calls about trading out of their spot.

I know you kid, but damn it if that's not one of the biggest issues with Hurney. His gut seems to be wrong 99% of the time. I don't want to say picking in the 1st is "easy" but even picking 16, you are basically evaluating 10-15 players. There's not as much guess work and not as many players to know well. I think the people he falls in love with are his only targets. Like Little, it doesn't seem like he was thinking anything about who else could he get with 47 and 77. He was only thinking, how do I get Little.

I have a feeling we aren't much of a trade back candidate unless we pull some magic. Let's say Las Vegas and Indy are two potential QB landing spots. 8-11 are kind of non-QB landing spots, so why trade up to 7 when you can just trade up to 11. I guess maybe if LAC doesn't pick a QB, we might be a potential trade partner for either of those two to make sure they get their guy.

[davos]

Have to say there's a few specific guys I've got my eye on as I've dove in a bit more:

MLB Malik Harrison (Ohio State) in a late 2nd trade up or 3rd round would be an awesome target.  Love his athleticism, closing speed, and quick play diagnosis.

DT Jordan Elliott (Missouri) in the 3rd/4th.  6'4 315, great speed for his size, sounds like he's got scouts excited.  

WR Isaiah Hodgins (Oregon State) 6'4 209...interested in how fast this kid runs and his drills.