Rappaport on the pending trade market for Cam

[Happy Panther]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

What?

argument.

[Ricky Spanish]

51 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

He didn’t have a season ending injury in 2016, missed no games.  The injury came in week 14, he was fine in 2016. 2018 looked really good until the recovery was demolished in like week 8 or 9 against the Bucs or Falcons (I forget which) and then TJ Watt’s spear tackle totally fuged his shoulder. And then the foot in 2019. So that’s two season ending injuries, with him looking good except the second half of ‘18 and the first two games of ‘19.  The number of injuries is semantics, but what I most disagree on is he hasn’t looked good since ‘15.  He only looked bad in the second half of 18 and the two games in 19, all due to the shoulder and foot respectively. Two different injuries. 

Nah Cam tweaked something against either KC or the Saints and hasn't been the same since:

Cam Before and after that game are night and day. He finished the season, but it was apparent to literally everyone that he should have been shut down before the season ended. I'll agree, the injury designations are all semantics but he has looked inconsistent and missed a ton of time since his initial injury back in 2016. 

So timeline is

2016 - Looked good first half season, looked bad second half of season

2017 - Looked alright, up and down but mostly good. Didn't practice a ton throughout the season due to shoulder surgery recovery.

2018 - Playing great first half of season then wheels fell off after the Watt hit. 

2019 - Looked downright bad and then IRed after 2 games after an innocuous tackle. 

On top of all that, Lisfrancs have a super high re-injury rate compared to other injuries, and history has shown he hasn't been able to shake off the shoulder injuries, it makes me worried he won't be able to shake off the lisfranc as well. 

[MHS831]

22 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Nah Cam tweaked something against either KC or the Saints and hasn't been the same since:

Cam Before and after that game are night and day. He finished the season, but it was apparent to literally everyone that he should have been shut down before the season ended. I'll agree, the injury designations are all semantics but he has looked inconsistent and missed a ton of time since his initial injury back in 2016. 

So timeline is

2016 - Looked good first half season, looked bad second half of season

2017 - Looked alright, up and down but mostly good. Didn't practice a ton throughout the season due to shoulder surgery recovery.

2018 - Playing great first half of season then wheels fell off after the Watt hit. 

2019 - Looked downright bad and then IRed after 2 games after an innocuous tackle. 

On top of all that, Lisfrancs have a super high re-injury rate compared to other injuries, and history has shown he hasn't been able to shake off the shoulder injuries, it makes me worried he won't be able to shake off the lisfranc as well. 

This is a great post for the "Cam Newton: 4 more years!" campaign committee.  To assume the next four will be better than the last 4, you have to be drinking the 2015 Kool Aid.  We are now paying for those times he refused to slide, throw it away, or pitch the ball.  All those helicopter goal line acrobatics---all those illegal shots to the head (Denver, Atlanta) that were not called.  All the experimental right tackles.  Some of us said it all along, but the Cam lovers were not buying it--"Superman!" they exclaimed.  He was great, but I said then, "Cam might have a decade playing this way." Yes, he could come back from this and have a good year or two, but the injury bug will return.  He recently said, "I am too old to change the way I play...." So go out doing what you do as long as you can do it and hold your head high---but we have probably already seen Cam's best.  That is not a fan's view--that is a GM's view.

[Sgt Schultz]

1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

It’s a big gamble that’s isn’t needed to be taken. Better to play cam this year, increase his value, than have the option of retaining or trading him next year if you can secure a top pick instead of banking on the unknown, if cam flops trade him at the deadline for whatever you can get, simple as that  

 

The fly in that ointment is his contract is up after this year.  So, if the goal is to play him and increase his value, we either have to then extend him with a contract other teams will be willing to take or trade him by the deadline.  Either might be doable, both have their own risks.  In the "by the deadline" scenario we are looking for a team that either lost the starter to injury or thinks they are Cam away from making a run.  If that does not work, then we are looking to thread the needle with a contract a healthy (but not 2015 level) Cam will command and what another team will take on.

 

[Mister]

i wonder if us trading cam to a team that secures us drafting tua or herbert

[panthers55]

If Cam returns and even plays at his early 2018 level we are competitive. That what a franchise QB does for you. And the whole we need a new offensive or defensive line is rather overblown.  If we don't dump all of our vets like we did in 2009 there is no reason to think we can't compete in 2020.  Sure we might not win the division or make the playoffs but it doesn't have to be between winning the Superbowl or tanking for the future. The draft picks we would pick up by decimating our veterans are peanuts and isn't going to make the big difference some folks think. We need to keep Cam in any case to either see what he has left or to actually get decent compensation for him. Tanking wouldn't suddenly fill the roster with talented young players and there is no guarantee any QB we pick up will be a franchise QB. We went from 2-14 to 12-4 in 3 years due to picking up Cam. If he is healthy there is no reason to be kicking him to the curb at this point. He offers more value keeping him than trading him and it isn't close. 

[Toomers]

1 hour ago, falconidae said:

Little early for that just yet.  Didn't Tepper buy the team too late in the offseason to do much his first year,  and, now he has  the Cam decision to make? Fairly unusual circumstances for any new owner.  Does look like he may be on the verge of blowing up the team and rebuilding,  May not be able to judge for another 2-3 years how he is. Do have to see if he learns from his mistakes.

  He took over in the summer of 2018, and it was too late to do anything. But after a 7-9 season, what reason was there to keep anyone who worked for Jerry Richardson. Instead, one season later, the team is a complete dumpster fire staring at a long rebuild. 
 

   Not my concern anymore. I’m like you, just a Steelers fan instead. Just waiting on Cams new address.  You’re fortunate to be a fan of a division rival. It will be a 3 team division for years.   

[Madwolf]

As someone who really likes Cam, and really would like to see Cam stay and win here:

There's a very rational point where you look at the situation and say: By the time we finish rebuilding Cam is going to be on the downslide of his career, and he's going to command a great deal of money between here and then. The bet that an often injured QB can stay healthy on a team that routinely hasn't protected him and is about to put even more of the game on his back is going to stay healthy and be successful is a losing bet.

[MHS831]

13 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

As someone who really likes Cam, and really would like to see Cam stay and win here:

There's a very rational point where you look at the situation and say: By the time we finish rebuilding Cam is going to be on the downslide of his career, and he's going to command a great deal of money between here and then. The bet that an often injured QB can stay healthy on a team that routinely hasn't protected him and is about to put even more of the game on his back is going to stay healthy and be successful is a losing bet.

People are thinking 2020 and others are thinking long-term rebuild.  Panther55 is not wrong--nor are you.  I go back to one word, however, that I cannot shake--we attribute it to RR, but I think it was made in reference to the organization:  Mediocrity. 

We lost Olsen and Luke.  We have an unproven LT, no LG, and a shaky C.  We lack a FS, probably a CB, and we have 1 DT on the roster.  Yes, we can add 2---maybe 3 starters in the draft.  Yes, we can sign a few free agents.  But the BEST we can be in 2020 with a healthy Cam--is probably 8-8.  And that would be amazing--he would have to have a great year to go .500.  6-10 more probable, but let's say 8-8 and Cam plays great.

Mediocrity--the best case scenario for 2020.

And now you have Cam Newton entering his 32nd year on earth---assuming he staved off injury in that environment---asking for "fair market value" for a franchise QB with high mileage and a waning skill set.  That cannot be what Tepper wants.

And remember----

That is the best case scenario.

 

 

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

Full on retard

no need to be so emotional. detach your emotions from mccaffrey and understand that he will never, ever be more valuable than he is right now on his rookie deal. if we're rebuilding, as so many have said, then what do you do? say it with me: maximize value. the value he provides on the field is completely wasted on a rebuilding team. and what you definitely dont do as a rebuilding team is hand out the largest contract ever for a running back lol. need to cash out right now if we're truly rebuilding. sorry if those facts hurt your feelings.

[Jon Snow]

3 hours ago, TheRumGone said:

Why does it matter if he’s useful during a rebuild? We’re not winning so who cares. The end of his contract aligns with when we figure to start fielding consistent teams. The point is to get to that consistency sooner rather than later which is why people are for trading him. Securing some 1st and 2nd round picks to reinvest in positions that actually equate to winning. Like franchise LTs, or DTs or edge rushers, ect.

This is ironic and part of the reason people want to trade cmc. Running backs have most of the shortest career spans in the NFL. You guys are the ones taking this personally. Some of us are trying to be smart about how we think we should build a contender in the quickest possible way. What is the point of having a 100+ million dollar rb in a rebuild? Why not use those assets we could get from him right now to secure franchise players at positions of extreme importance? Seems like y’all are the emotional ones.

No, it's just that why now?   I mean if you want picks for a particular draft one would think that you would want them in the 2021 draft, right?  Unless you are trading him for future draft picks then that's another debate all together.  But for now you don't have to do anything with CMC but feed him the ball.  Next year, yeah, we can talk about trading him for a Kings Ransom.

Anyway, I was mostly poking fun at the handful that's gone mental at the thought of the team moving on without Cam.  They've turned their anger towards CMC.

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

no need to be so emotional. detach your emotions from mccaffrey and understand that he will never, ever be more valuable than he is right now on his rookie deal. if we're rebuilding, as so many have said, then what do you do? say it with me: maximize value. the value he provides on the field is completely wasted on a rebuilding team. and what you definitely dont do as a rebuilding team is hand out the largest contract ever for a running back lol. need to cash out right now if we're truly rebuilding. sorry if those facts hurt your feelings.

I have stated before that no RB is worth their second contract.  AP, Emmit Smith, Faulk, etc.  are freaks that proved that statement wrong, but the RB position is a 4-year deal.  CMC as a slot, situational back could extend his career, but RR was determined to make him a one-contract wonder. 

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

his makes no sense. CMC is under contract for another year plus and a 5th year.

he is absolutely going to hold out in the 5th year. the last "good value" year (meaning productivity vs pay) we have with him is next season. going to be wasting a ton of value throwing him out there as we blow everything up. to say that it "makes no sense" goes to show how little you've thought about it. you, like many others, are emotionally attached to a player. i get it, you're a fan, w/e. but if we're actually rebuilding then it's very dumb not to shop one of your most valuable assets who also happens to play a position with a relatively short lifespan. 

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Even if we extend him 5 more years, he’s still 2 years younger in the last deal of the extension than Cam is now.

quarterbacks play longer than running backs. mccaffrey is in all likelihood in the midst of his prime right now. think about how much better he would have to be for his upcoming contract to be worth it to a rebuilding team. you trade him now, you let him walk, or you end up the team that handed out a record breaking contract to a running back in the middle of a rebuild. this isn't hard.

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Why is it so hard to get the 5 year plan that people like Gross have mentioned and realize that CMC fits that and Cam with only one year left does not?

what do you have when you have the highest paid running back in the league? an anchor on your cap. there simply isn't enough value there. his most valuable seasons will be the seasons he plays on his rookie deal. he's going to take up a ton of cap playing a position where there is very little positional value. stupid way to "rebuild" a team, sorry.

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

I don’t know if we will trade Cam and it’s not up to me but it’s silly to act like there’s not a difference between the two.

the most important difference between the two is that cam plays a premium position while mccaffrey does not. cam moves the needle while mccaffrey does not. mccaffrey makes a lot of sense for a team ready to compete. keeping him makes no sense for a team talking about a 5 year rebuild lol

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

I always bring up DJ Moore because he’s 1 year younger than CMC so basically the same. CMC is always brought up by the people who think people OK with Cam being traded are OK with it because we must want a white QB. Moore and CMC should be kept solely based on their age and being weapons for the rebuild.

not sure what race has to do with this 

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

7 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Anyway, I was mostly poking fun at the handful that's gone mental at the thought of the team moving on without Cam.  They've turned their anger towards CMC.

oh yeah just all of a sudden people decided it's stupid to give running backs massive contracts, especially in the middle of a rebuild lol