Rappaport on the pending trade market for Cam

[panthers55]

The whole argument that we need to suck and dump everyone or we are settling for mediocrity makes little sense to me. To win you need a franchise QB plain and simple. We have one who struggles to stay healthy.  If he is healthy he is a top 10 QB. He is cheap and we can dump or trade him all the way to June 1st with no cap consequence I read somewhere.   Correct me if I am wrong.  And our supporting staff is actually decent for a 3-4 if we can get some stout guys in the middle to help out Kwan and keep drafting tackles until we luck into our next Gross and Wharton, we have the guys to compete now. 

The whole notion that if we suck really bad and get a top 2 pick suddenly we get a can't fail franchise quarterback and our troubles are over and all these young guys are suddenly going to become quality starters and here we come playoff bound.  I want to see what Brady can do with Cam in a better offense.  Rhule has a 7 year contract. He doesn't have to blow things up to change the culture and get his kind of guys.  Seems to me that Cam is Rhule's kind of guy who hates losing and will work hard to reverse it.  Seems there may be a lot of players who embrace the new philosophy who will serve as great mentors to the young guys. Rhule said he wanted a mix of young guys and old guys. That is restocking not blowing it up.

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

3 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Keeping CMC  for this year makes sense from a marketing standpoint, gives fans someone to go see. Also allows them to pretend they aren't rebuilding this year. Those things have more value than you want to give them. Yeah, don't give him a huge contract, but having him on the team this year makes sense.

im not treating the team like a business because that's lame and fans never do that anyway. i care about future success, not sales at the concession stand. tepper may disagree and that's fine. the degree to which he disagrees would go a long way in showing how important to tepper winning is over maximizing (short term) profits. that seems to be one of the most important lines to be drawn between "good" and "bad" owners. if we're torching assets so the team sells more jerseys then that's an objectively bad thing for fans. i dont turn on the game to cheer on tepper's bottom line.

[stbugs]

5 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

hits are hits and whereas other running backs get to rest mccaffrey stays on in pass protection. you're fooling yourself if you think that doesn't take a toll. injuries aren't going to be a matter of "if" but "when" (unless he's unusually lucky)

that's a lot of risk to take on for the privilege of making him the highest paid running back in the league on a bad team

this is how the conversation surrounding cam shifts. he's simultaneously so much of a risk that the team should move on from him and yet somehow he has the leverage to hold out? that doesn't make any sense. but should he refuse to play, i wouldn't blame him. i would support that decision. but if the franchise has an opportunity to see what he has left, if he's willing to play, it would be extremely dumb to cut him or trade him for what will surely be very little.

this isn't true

yeah and i'm not the only one. the people suggesting we trade mccaffrey would happily keep him if it meant we were planning to compete. but for months now we've been told the team sucks and the greatest player in the history of the franchise needs to go. it's not worth it to see if he recovered. push him out the door. so alright, fine. now we're talking rebuild. and if mccaffrey's name isn't coming up when it comes time to talk rebuild, you're doing something wrong. 

It is true and I said you provided a why CMC, not lumping you in with others who aren’t saying we should get rid of CMC because they don’t want to extend him.

That said, not worth conversing with you anymore. You can’t even see the other points. I’ll admit where something is my opinion and I’d rather have CMC for a rookie QB and I don’t think Cam should play on a one year deal and I know we can’t extend him. I’m in for a full on rebuild but IMHO that doesn’t mean getting rid of our best offensive weapons like CMC and Moore. KC paid Kelce, Watkins and Hill. Probably would have paid Hunt as well if he didn’t get suspended and might not have gotten Watkins. They did that because Mahomes was cheap.

[USC/panthers_11]

1 hour ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

no need to be so emotional. detach your emotions from mccaffrey and understand that he will never, ever be more valuable than he is right now on his rookie deal. if we're rebuilding, as so many have said, then what do you do? say it with me: maximize value. the value he provides on the field is completely wasted on a rebuilding team. and what you definitely dont do as a rebuilding team is hand out the largest contract ever for a running back lol. need to cash out right now if we're truly rebuilding. sorry if those facts hurt your feelings.

Those are not all facts - they're you're opinions. Mccaffrey is only 23 and should play 10+ more years if he remains healthy. He has the versatility to move to receive later in his career as well.

"The value he provides on the field is completely wasted on a rebuilding team."

Totally disagree. The goal is still to win games and put butts in the seats. How do you keep fans interested by getting rid of the best player on the team (and one of the best in the league)? We are also losing all time Panther greats like a Kuechly and possibly Cam. You really think ownership wants to lose Mccaffrey also.

I also shake my head at some people ITT who suggest we're looking at 4-5 year rebuild. This is idiotic. We are talking about the NFL, not some crappy college football program who has recruited like sh*t for years. The NFL is modeled to create parody via the salary cap, 53 man roster, nfl draft order, free agency, etc. How do people not comprehend this? Now I would certainly wager next year will be a bad one record wise but to think we can't be competitive the following year is foolish and shortsighted. 

 

 

[Jon Snow]

15 minutes ago, Basbear said:

My biggest issue with knowing the most likely sucking coming in 2020, is it is a built in excuse for Herniay.  He will get another fing year..... 

He most likely will weasel his way into sticking around.  That's why I'm just going to watch the games and see how it plays out.  

[Basbear]

Bill Parcells basically started the whole "de-valued" RB stuff. The kicker is he also gave up a 1st for Curtis Martin when he was "old". He also saw the value of a elite RB, which CMC has shown he is.  

[Basbear]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

He most likely will weasel his way into sticking around.  That's why I'm just going to watch the games and see how it plays out.  

So long as they are putting out effort, thats all I care about(coaches too). This last year hurt my soul. Ive already stated my opinion on all these Baylor hires, just bizarre how things are happening. 

[Cpt slay a ho]

11 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Cam's value doesn't increase next year, If he proves he's healthy,that's negated by  his cost going up considerably. If he's not healthy, he won't improve his value.

There's also the idea that Cam IS an unknown, particularly  to Tepper. Tepper hasn't seen anything in his tenure to suggest Cam can sustain quality play over any length of time. Some QB hungry team will give the most value for Cam now.

No one here on the board has Cam's medical records, or records of the conversations between Cam and the team. It may be that Cam's shoulder is fubared, or Cam may have quietly demanded  a trade because he sees the lack of talent on the roster and is not interested in being in a rebuilding situation. 

Keeping CMC  for this year makes sense from a marketing standpoint, gives fans someone to go see. Also allows them to pretend they aren't rebuilding this year. Those things have more value than you want to give them. Yeah, don't give him a huge contract, but having him on the team this year makes sense.

That’s the cost for a good qb, I guarantee a team that thinks there a qb away will trade a first or package picks for cam if he plays a healthy season.

tepper can look at 2017-2019 and have enough evidence to lean either way imo.

I highly doubt cam is requesting a trade due to the roster outlook when he’s dealt with worst, I also don’t think we will openly trade a guy who’s shoulder is nuclear and disclose from other teams, that’s a quick way to get on the Leagues bad side and prevent yourself from making trades down the road 

[Cpt slay a ho]

2 hours ago, Sgt Schultz said:

The fly in that ointment is his contract is up after this year.  So, if the goal is to play him and increase his value, we either have to then extend him with a contract other teams will be willing to take or trade him by the deadline.  Either might be doable, both have their own risks.  In the "by the deadline" scenario we are looking for a team that either lost the starter to injury or thinks they are Cam away from making a run.  If that does not work, then we are looking to thread the needle with a contract a healthy (but not 2015 level) Cam will command and what another team will take on.

 

Yeah the things is if he balls out we’d have to franchise and trade him, which is uncommon but doable. 

if you’re not getting a first for him currently and we’re like 2-6 at the deadline or out of the hunt, you basically get what you can from him.

i personally think having the flexibility to keep or trade him next year is greater than this tankathon we are headed for if he’s traded this year and banking on qbs next year, and banking on the fact that if we aren’t a top 2 pick teams would be willing to trade with us and pass on a qb. 
 

just the safer route to me in the grand scheme of things 
 

[Basbear]

7 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

That’s the cost for a good qb, I guarantee a team that thinks there a qb away will trade a first or package picks for cam if he plays a healthy season.

tepper can look at 2017-2019 and have enough evidence to lean either way imo.

I highly doubt cam is requesting a trade due to the roster outlook when he’s dealt with worst, I also don’t think we will openly trade a guy who’s shoulder is nuclear and disclose from other teams, that’s a quick way to get on the Leagues bad side and prevent yourself from making trades down the road 

Big problem is Cam or his whole crew will not want to go there, thus not getting the primo draft picks. We're at stage where there are fewer secrets, teams call other teams, agents rep players, GMs and coaches etc. SO a team maybe willing to give a 1st , 3rd, and future 5th for Cam.....that is til they fnd out either Cam doesnt want to go there or no other team wanting Cam is offering a 1st. 

[Cpt slay a ho]

3 hours ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

But why keep him now? He's not taking us to the SB. Why waste a year? And I'm not saying we go after a high QB. I'm saying we get the best value for Cam now and start rebuilding. Mainly Oline.

Why not keep him? You’ve already stated you opinion on cam so no need to go down that road again, keeping him extends option for next year, and this one. 

id like to draft and groom a qb before throwing him out there via trial by fire 
 

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Big problem is Cam or his whole crew will not want to go there, thus not getting the primo draft picks. We're at stage where there are fewer secrets, teams call other teams, agents rep players, GMs and coaches etc. SO a team maybe willing to give a 1st , 3rd, and future 5th for Cam.....that is til they fnd out either Cam doesnt want to go there or no other team wanting Cam is offering a 1st. 

That’s almost career suicide, if that’s there goal and outright release would be his best bet.

again hearing from the coach, owner and cam looks like that is the opposite of what they are trying to accomplish, unless it’s a huge smoke screen 

[Sgt Schultz]

27 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Yeah the things is if he balls out we’d have to franchise and trade him, which is uncommon but doable. 

if you’re not getting a first for him currently and we’re like 2-6 at the deadline or out of the hunt, you basically get what you can from him.

i personally think having the flexibility to keep or trade him next year is greater than this tankathon we are headed for if he’s traded this year and banking on qbs next year, and banking on the fact that if we aren’t a top 2 pick teams would be willing to trade with us and pass on a qb. 
 

just the safer route to me in the grand scheme of things 
 

I agree with you on hanging onto him and seeing what he can do next season.  And depending on how things go, if he looks good and some contender's starter goes down or somebody who is lacking at QB manages to go crazy, there may be options at or prior to the deadline if we want to go that way.

Somebody has to play the position next year.  The worse that somebody plays, the more critical it is to find THE starter quickly.  If Cam can play as a healthy, 2020 version (I'm not buying the idea that he can recreate the 2015 version), we have the luxury of some time that can be used to address our other many needs while being selective about who the heir apparent is.  The worst that can happen is either get nothing in return for Cam (he walks or can't stay healthy) or we win enough and move down in the draft.  But, there is no rule or even trend that good starting QBs are only taken in the first five picks of a draft.  As for losing a potential third round pick because Cam walks or can't stay healthy, our track record in those rounds is less than stellar, anyway.  As long as Hurney is pulling the levers on draft picks, I don't consider mid and late round picks as assets of any great significance. 

Long story short, I don't see a big downside to suiting him up next year and letting the chips fall where they may.

Tanking never works out the way a team hopes.  Somebody is always going to naturally stink the place up better than anybody can design and execute incompetence. 

 

[falconidae]

1 hour ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

im not treating the team like a business because that's lame and fans never do that anyway. i care about future success, not sales at the concession stand. tepper may disagree and that's fine. the degree to which he disagrees would go a long way in showing how important to tepper winning is over maximizing (short term) profits. that seems to be one of the most important lines to be drawn between "good" and "bad" owners. if we're torching assets so the team sells more jerseys then that's an objectively bad thing for fans. i dont turn on the game to cheer on tepper's bottom line.

I'm only talking about this coming year, signing him to a huge long term contract wouldn't be  good. But, keeping arguably the best player on the team for a year makes sense. You may not like the reasons it makes sense, doesn't change the fact they're good reasons.

1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

That’s the cost for a good qb, I guarantee a team that thinks there a qb away will trade a first or package picks for cam if he plays a healthy season.

tepper can look at 2017-2019 and have enough evidence to lean either way imo.

I highly doubt cam is requesting a trade due to the roster outlook when he’s dealt with worst, I also don’t think we will openly trade a guy who’s shoulder is nuclear and disclose from other teams, that’s a quick way to get on the Leagues bad side and prevent yourself from making trades down the road 

Cam has lost 8 straight games and had 2 surgeries last year, plus one in 2016. 3 major surgeries in 3 years is a concern. Plus, there's the fact that Cam, since he came into the league, is top 25 in rushing attempts and top 16 in rushing yardage and top 5 in rushing TDs.  There's one other QB inside the top 80 attempts- Wilson at 40. That's a lot of wear and tear, in addition to the hits he gets in the pocket. Not sure that there's a whole lot of evidence for leaning either way. Really looks like his style of play, exacerbated by the type of offense he played and the lack of consistent OLine play has worn him down. 

 

Paying 30 mil plus a bunch of draft picks for Cam after a healthy 2020 may not be as attractive an idea as you think. 

Wouldn't be stunned if he retired when his contract expires- he'll have made 140 mil playing, easily another 50 mil, if not much more, in endorsements, he has businesses already, he's beloved in the Carolinas, he can make 10 mil a year with sports broadcasting and endorsements, without 300 lb pound men hitting him on a regular basis.