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“A great developer of talent...”(the best).

Harbingers

By Harbingers,
in Carolina Panthers

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TheMaulClaw Mentor

TheMaulClaw

Posted
Posted

I'm fully prepared to develop a dissociative condition towards Panthers football for the next few seasons.

There is something about Rhule that I just dont think players are going into buy into. Maybe it's the high pitched preachiness that come across as phony while behind the scenes the guy only cares about money.

The fact that he has left both of his jobs after only 3 seasons tells me he has just been looking for a big pay check. His track record goes like this. Suck.Suck a little less. Good, now I'm gone for more money. Suck. Suck a little less. Good, now I'm gone for more money. 

Even Tepper offers the cat an amazing offer and he gets on the phone with the Giants.

Now we have to deal with this cliche bullshit "process" crap.

I dont buy this guy is a leader of men. Just like Tepper isnt. 

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Harbingers Grand Master

Harbingers

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15 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

For transition and experience. Help the new guy get settled, help with the draft (yeah yeah only round 1). Then he is gone or in a an advisory role.

Ya, I just don’t trust Hurney to ever give up the reigns of full control willingly and I don’t see Tepper moving on him this year at all and maybe even resigning him as GM next year depending on how things shake down.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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2 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

Ya, I just don’t trust Hurney to ever give up the reigns of full control willingly and I don’t see Tepper moving on him this year at all and maybe even resigning him as GM next year depending on how things shake down.

I'm prepared for this to play out just as you described.   I would be pleasantly surprised if it turned out any other way to be honest.

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Harbingers Grand Master

Harbingers

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6 minutes ago, imminent rogaine said:

Silver lining here is that there probably is not another staff that knows the upcoming draft prospects better than ours. They hav recruited them, coached them, watched tape on them and faced them and they likely have college coaching connections that have done the same. This would be the best draft to have a lot of picks

Counterpoint: Marty Hurney. 

But I get what you’re saying. 

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DaveThePanther2008 Grand Master

DaveThePanther2008

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On 2/15/2020 at 9:52 PM, SmokinwithWilly said:

I agree. Give him the chance to actually get players on the same level and see how he does. Guys go to the big name schools because they want to get on the big time stage so they can get drafted. Turning schools with middle of the road and lesser talent from terrible records to solid winning records is an accomplishment.

Nobody has ever said my path to the NFL runs through Baylor or Temple.

Exactly.  What's more impressive going 11-1 with 3 borderline NFL players or going 6-6 with a roster full of them.

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

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On 2/16/2020 at 8:36 AM, mjligon said:

Buncha JAGs

Buncha NFL players for programs that had 1 win at the beginning of these three years at each location.

Here is what one must keep in mind---these were not four and five-star recruits.  He did not land players that had visited Oklahoma or Ohio State.  He got the players that were a notch above FCS talent--and a lot with FCS-level talent. 

Look at the undrafted free agents---players who had learned to "defy the odds" in college.  That tells me that Rhule and his staff recruited guys with strong work ethic and attitudes.  

If your experience around a college program is through a TV, you may not get it.  Rhule is not going to beat anyone by outcoaching them on game day---he is not going to have a better strategy than Payton or Reid.   But you can bet his players will be hungry, well-coached, and willing to do whatever it takes to win.  With that in mind, we will find players that were Undrafted free agents, sixth and seventh rounders with heart and a desire to get better. 

That is why Marty has to go.  I have never heard of him drafting a player from that perspective. That is why he struggles after round one--most teams do.  I can say this, having played in college on a FCS level (we had 4 players---three undrafted---make NFL rosters the year I left--2 became pro bowlers)  that being the underdog is very motivating with the right inspirational leader.  You play like you have nothing to lose--because you don't.

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Sgt Schultz Grand Master

Sgt Schultz

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8 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Buncha NFL players for programs that had 1 win at the beginning of these three years at each location.

Here is what one must keep in mind---these were not four and five-star recruits.  He did not land players that had visited Oklahoma or Ohio State.  He got the players that were a notch above FCS talent--and a lot with FCS-level talent. 

Look at the undrafted free agents---players who had learned to "defy the odds" in college.  That tells me that Rhule and his staff recruited guys with strong work ethic and attitudes.  

If your experience around a college program is through a TV, you may not get it.  Rhule is not going to beat anyone by outcoaching them on game day---he is not going to have a better strategy than Payton or Reid.   But you can bet his players will be hungry, well-coached, and willing to do whatever it takes to win.  With that in mind, we will find players that were Undrafted free agents, sixth and seventh rounders with heart and a desire to get better. 

That is why Marty has to go.  I have never heard of him drafting a player from that perspective. That is why he struggles after round one--most teams do.  I can say this, having played in college on a FCS level (we had 4 players---three undrafted---make NFL rosters the year I left--2 became pro bowlers)  that being the underdog is very motivating with the right inspirational leader.  You play like you have nothing to lose--because you don't.

I started to comment on this the other day, then work intervened.  People act like the number of players from a program that go onto NFL careers is somehow a good benchmark to determine how well a coach or coaches develop talent.  There is an assumption in there that does not hold water, and you hit on it with the statement about not landing players who visited Oklahoma or Ohio State. 

If you are a good HS talent who people think has a shot at one day playing on Sundays, and you get offers from LSU, Oklahoma, Ohio State, and Baylor, who is the odd program out?  It may have something to do with coaching history, but it also has to do with exposure.  If you are a starter at the first three, you are guaranteed to be seen by NFL decision makers.  At Baylor, those decisions makers have to find you.  If you are a marquee talent, they will, but for somebody that might be a day two or three draft choice, it might be the difference between being drafted or not.  Schools like Baylor have more success getting players who probably will not be starters at more renown programs, but have a great shot at starting for them.

And while we are on the subject, who has put more talent into the NFL than Nick Saban?  Yet, how did he do at the next level?  Here is a clue: the guy is 243-65-1 in college, 152-23 at Alabama and another 48-16 at LSU with a total of 6 National Championships.  Yet he was basically a .500 coach in two season in the NFL and his second season was worse than his first (so not trending up in very limited data).  Point is, there is very little correlation between the obvious benchmarks (wins or number of players who move to the next level) and how a coach will do in the NFL. 

In fact, if there was any consistent correlation between anything and NFL coaching success, the "hit rate" of HC hires would be a lot better than it is.

I don't know if Rhule and company will pan out or not, but he was worth a shot.  Counting us, there were at least two NFL organizations seriously interested in him, and the idea of a guy with a ton of NFL experience (McDaniels) who ultimately got passed over (maybe to his benefit with the Browns) did not thrill me.  And sticking with Rivera, who had reached his expiration date here, and expecting different results was not a great option unless our motto was set to become "Commitment to Mediocrity."

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