BREAKING NEWS: David Tepper speaks on Cam Newton status with Panthers

[joeyxfresco]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Some of ya'll need to decide if you want to attack players and be a mouthpiece for billionaires, or actually look at who makes the decisions. Hint: it isn't those two guys.

You guys would have like minded company in curmudgeons like Bob McNair.

Eh, while I’m pro player I don’t like the fact that from what we know they negotiated with the FO for new contracts, didn’t get them and then cried to Jerruh a week before training camp started and well after Beane left. That whole ordeal probably set us back 10 years. 

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, joeyxfresco said:

Eh, while I’m pro player I don’t like the fact that from what we know they negotiated with the FO for new contracts, didn’t get them and then cried to Jerruh a week before training camp started and well after Beane left. That whole ordeal probably set us back 10 years. 

I have to think tensions had already been brewing between DG and JR before all that.

Can you imagine those two coexisting for long with their personalities? Seriously lol

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Big Ben and Cam are different styles of QBs. That's all you need to know. Can Cam play until he's 38? Of course. Will it be like his MVP season? Nope.

[MHS831]

57 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Ben will be 38 in a couple of weeks. He's also the 2nd highest paid quarterback in the NFL.

Newton will be 31 in May.

You could compare running QB Cam to a more of a pocket passer using age to form your argument, but the better measurement of a QB's career is probably based on hits.  Cam is aging rapidly in that regard.

FROM ESPN:

"The question for Newton is, can he play into his 30s at the level Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers and others have?

One factor is injuries. Newton, according to ESPN Stats & Information research, has been contacted (sacked or hit while throwing or rushing) 1,304 times since 2011. Seattle’s Russell Wilson is second at 942. Rodgers is at 669.
 

• They compare Cam to pocket passers.  Cam has not evolved into one, which is why the hits (with Luck being the closest to a pocket passer and he has nearly half the hits Cam has.  He is now out of the game, as we all know).  Cam gets hit more than twice as often as Big Ben.  I don't care how old you are, if you tally the hits, Cam is aging (as a player) at twice the rate of Big Ben--hits, not age, determine your career length.  Ben is 38 because he has had a good OL and avoids contact.  He slides and goes down easily in the pocket when grabbed.  Cam resists.  Take Cam's foot injury--Ben would have hit the ground and not tried to extend a preseason game play. 
• At his kickball tourney this summer, Cam stated that he is not going to change--he said he was too old for that.
• And of all the running QBs in the NFL--only 1 (Wilson) has won a Super Bowl, and frankly, that was a team built around defense and running Beast Mode.

And there is this--the most damning aspect of your argument:

Since 2006, Newton has taken far more hits (10.0) per game than any other quarterback. Wilson is second at 7.5, followed by Dak Prescott at 6.1 and Andrew Luck at 6.0."  Newton did not start playing until 2011, and he has still been hit more than Big Ben, who had a 5-year head start (Ben drafted in 2004 and this count started in 2006).

Furthermore, Big Ben is about to become the most sacked QB of all time.  So if the most sacked QB of all time (your example) has more than half the hits of someone who entered the count five years after they started counting hits, how significant is the beating Cam has taken?

https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/posts/6305876-ben-roethlisberger-on-pace-to-break-nfl-record-for-most-sacked-quarterback

 

[stbugs]

22 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

And after each rebuild, we had a Super Bowl appearance. 

Yep. Freaking ostriches around here so worried that their PSLs will suck in 2020 not realizing that they sucked the past two years. I’ve been to multiple games the past few years and spent a lot on seats right up front for the family. I’ve got some skin in the game, but I also like that Tepper doesn’t want to limp along. Our base right now is terrible and Cam hasn’t been truly healthy since 2015. His arm strength and running ability have been his greatest traits and that’s been seriously a problem.

People get so emotional and latch on to their heros. I just want the team to become another multi-year contender that can get to the Super Bowl. Brees is not long for the world. Winston and Ryan aren’t getting better. It’s time to retool and own the division. That’s how the Steelers and Cowboys and 49ers and Patriots got their multiple SBs in their dynasty runs. They pretty much knew they were in the playoffs before the seasons started. Let’s see if we can do that. Call it tanking or call it a rebuild if it lets you sleep better. Let’s do this. 

[TheRed]

Just now, MHS831 said:

You could compare running QB Cam to a pocket passer using age to form your argument, but the better measurement of a QB's career is probably based on hits.  Three years, three surgeries.

FROM ESPN:

"The question for Newton is, can he play into his 30s at the level Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers and others have?

One factor is injuries. Newton, according to ESPN Stats & Information research, has been contacted (sacked or hit while throwing or rushing) 1,304 times since 2011. Seattle’s Russell Wilson is second at 942. Rodgers is at 669.
 

• They compare Cam to pocket passers.  Cam has not evolved into one, which is why the hits (with Luck being the closest to a pocket passer and he has nearly half the hits Cam has.  He is now out of the game, as we all know).  Cam gets hit more than twice as often as Big Ben.  I don't care how old you are, if you tally the hits, Cam is aging (as a player) at twice the rate of Big Ben--hits, not age, determine your career length.  Ben is 38 because he has had a good OL and avoids contact.  He slides and goes down easily in the pocket when grabbed.  Cam resists.  Take Cam's foot injury--Ben would have hit the ground and not tried to extend a preseason game play. 
• At his kickball tourney this summer, Cam stated that he is not going to change--he said he was too old for that.
• And of all the running QBs in the NFL--only 1 (Wilson) has won a Super Bowl, and frankly, that was a team built around defense.

And there is this--the most damning aspect of your argument:

Since 2006, Newton has taken far more hits (10.0) per game than any other quarterback. Wilson is second at 7.5, followed by Dak Prescott at 6.1 and Andrew Luck at 6.0."  Newton did not start playing until 2011, and he has still been hit more than Big Ben, who had a 5-year head start (Ben drafted in 2004).

Furthermore, Big Ben is about to become the most sacked QB of all time.  So if the most sacked QB of all time (your example) has more than half the hits of someone who entered the count five years after they started counting hits, how significant is the beating Cam has taken?

https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/posts/6305876-ben-roethlisberger-on-pace-to-break-nfl-record-for-most-sacked-quarterback

(This is where you launch a personal attack against the poster and not the facts just presented)

Can't know until we see how healthy he is obviously. But the fact of the matter is the Steelers have given Ben an exorbitant amount of chances over the years.

At the end of the day, it will be a very tough pill to swallow if we ship off Cam and watch him play at a high level somewhere else. If we move on we have to be absolutely sure of what we are doing. Then again if we are sure he can't be the same again, what exactly are we going to get for him in a trade? That scenario would mean a release.

[TheRed]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

People get so emotional and latch on to their heros.

So what are your thoughts on shopping CMC if we are rebuilding?

You better not get emotional now *wags finger*

[raz]

12 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Yep. Freaking ostriches around here so worried that their PSLs will suck in 2020 not realizing that they sucked the past two years. I’ve been to multiple games the past few years and spent a lot on seats right up front for the family. I’ve got some skin in the game, but I also like that Tepper doesn’t want to limp along. Our base right now is terrible and Cam hasn’t been truly healthy since 2015. His arm strength and running ability have been his greatest traits and that’s been seriously a problem.

People get so emotional and latch on to their heros. I just want the team to become another multi-year contender that can get to the Super Bowl. Brees is not long for the world. Winston and Ryan aren’t getting better. It’s time to retool and own the division. That’s how the Steelers and Cowboys and 49ers and Patriots got their multiple SBs in their dynasty runs. They pretty much knew they were in the playoffs before the seasons started. Let’s see if we can do that. Call it tanking or call it a rebuild if it lets you sleep better. Let’s do this. 

i don't get it either.   so what if we suck this year.  you don't take a dilapidated house and build on to it.  sometimes you have to live in a camper or trailer on the property while the house is getting built.   so what?   it'll get built and at least there is a plan in place and now people in place that, in this analogy, are a lot better at recognizing good lumber

[TheRed]

If Cam is gone this year most of these "realists" telling you how better off the team will be will disappear if and when we are once again at the bottom of the barrel in the division and conference.

All this stuff sounds great in February. Not so much in October.

[Tbe]

18 minutes ago, TheRed said:

So what are your thoughts on shopping CMC if we are rebuilding?

You better not get emotional now *wags finger*

I’m all for it. The Lions (3rd overall pick) are in win now mode or that staff gets fired. It is an open secret that they are trying to trade down. We could have the 3rd and 7th pick. So Tua and a top DL or OL prospect.

I know it’s not going to happen. Cmc is here to stay, but it’s an option.

[Tbe]

3 hours ago, TheRed said:

If Cam is gone this year most of these "realists" telling you how better off the team will be will disappear if and when we are once again at the bottom of the barrel in the division and conference.

All this stuff sounds great in February. Not so much in October.

As soon as you accept that next season is going to be bad (cam or no cam), the better off you’ll be. 
 

We have no defensive line and our top corner is going to be Jackson. 

[raleigh-panther]

devils advocate seeing how I am one of those PSL owners 

What is the issue with keeping Newton this year?  and getting a serviceable backup if he fails   If he can’t play, bring in the backup 

AND

Use those freaking draft choices to rebuild  the lines or the LBs or the CBs, all of which suck.  

then in 2021 if the team wants to package players to move up for a QB, then do it 

this is risk mitigation. Plain and simple 
 

there is not one Qb in this draft. So say those who rank them, that doesn’t carry risk. Burroughs and Tua  cost  too much. 

I’ll tell you one damned thing, I don’t want to see Newton go to another team prematurely cut from the Panthers and tear the league up while we sit here with the Baylor team southeast ‘a wishin and a hop’in’ for $5500 a year in tickets 

I would also say if it’s such a rebuild, why keep McCaffrey.  What’s the point.  Why not trade him for the # 1 or 2 pick straight up.  He is just a running back right?   Lol

[carolinarolls]

On 2/11/2020 at 8:19 PM, Chief Keek said:

Welp it's a shame Cam is basically indirectly being shown the door. I just hope they find him a good landing spot.

See, and yes I realize this is not a popular take in 2020, but employees find their own landing spots.  If Cam (a.k.a the Icon) is no longer part of the solution in Carolina as considered by those who employ him then its up to him to convince another employer that he can be.

This may be on Tepper.  It may be on Cam.  Just like your job and mine, there is always going to be a difference of opinion of what caused escalation and eventually into a parting of the ways. The facts are that Lisfranc surgery is not an ACL or Tommy John. Spare me the everyone recovers differently and all of our bodies work differently.  I get it.  Something else is going on and has been going on for some time now.   It may not be popular to believe it.  That may be what makes it so easy to cover it up from the public with random press releases and rehearsed comments about injuries and rehab.  But in reality these two entities don't seem to be on the same page and are trying less and less hard to hide it.

When you have to dispose of tried and true proven leaders in order to make room for "new leadership" you are taking a huge risk.  The NFL is a risky business.  Steve Smith was sacrificed for a guy who had/has the goods, who is an awesome individual doing more than his fair share off the field for his community by all rights, but still never made it happen within the organization.  Its hard to forget that even though at the time most Panther fans saw it as a necessary evil.  The future seemed that obvious.  But now we have different things to consider.  How does an obvious talent, a tremendous work ethic, and a good heart not make it?  It might be the fit, the culture, the surrounding cast, or something we don't know about the individual (yet).

As a Cam Newton fan the important thing should be to find the best spot to flourish and contribute off the field in a new community.

As a Panther fan, the important thing should be understanding that something, somewhere is off and a desire to move forward past it all.

No matter how hard the choice is, it seems more and more likely some people will be faced with the decision of what/who they are soon enough.

[34yearoldsafety]

Tired of the disrespect, 9 years worth of it. We are treating the best player in our franchise history like he's just marcus mariota or jamesis winston. Ignored the o-line for almost 7 years, undoubtedly aiding in injury. (2018 we had ANDRE FRIGGIN CLARK starting at Left tackle, not to mention the Matt Kalil years). We have consistently missed on just about 75% of every draft pick after the first round throughout his tenure. During his MVP year, the best WR receiver on his team was TED GINN. Failed to get him a competent offensive coordinator for 6 years. Literally did everything in our power to disregard and build around cam's clear and OBVIOUS talent.

Now this. This is just wrong. This forced rebuild feels sloppy and without clear direction. It's the NFL, you establish a culture, stick with it, and let football run it's course. Statements like "we'll see when he's healthy" in MARCH (the season is not until September) are non committal, unclear, non confident, and appear to sound like something straight out of a New York jets press conference. How about "If he's healthy, Cam is our guy"??? That's what the colts did for andrew luck (on top of building an offensive line for him afterwards) and Cam has done WAY more for us than that guy. We are being disrespectful. To our fans and to our best player EVER. Just dangling him out like a piece of trash. Not to mention devaluing him for any potential trade and also increasing the chances of getting nothing in return for letting an MVP walk. In a few years people will look back at this as the lowest point in franchise history.

By getting rid of cam there is one thing we can all agree on: we are going to SUCK. we are banking our future next year on A) Trevor Lawrence, who imo is Extremely over hyped. B) Justin Fields (who I like and fits the new NFL mold, but please point to the last successful Ohio state QB) or c) some washed and underachieving FA, who keep us mediocre at best away from the top pick for sure. Either way that's at least a 2-3 year curve with the rookie (or indefinite with the FA). In that time we are likely to have overpaid CMC who will be on the decline (as history has shown with RB's, especially ones with his amount of touches), lost Joe Brady (assuming he shows promise, we all know what the trend is with 30ish yr old o-coordinators), and who knows what else.

Is it worth it?