For those who want to tank for Trevor Lawrence?

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, Varking said:

I don't want to tank. I am tired of watching the boys struggle. However, Cam for one year going 9-7 isn't going to make us better long term. If they are going to tank they need to trade him. And if that is the scenario I can take it for one more year to snag a Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields. 

Cam is 30, not 40. If we keep Cam and he plays well and stays healthy and we're in playoff contention at 9-7 just re-sign Cam and roll on.

[Madwolf]

18 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Cam is 30, not 40. If we keep Cam and he plays well and stays healthy and we're in playoff contention at 9-7 just re-sign Cam and roll on.

That's why I'm onboard with Cam this upcoming season. If he stays healthy we resign him, if he doesn't we're screwed and going to have a chance to pick his replacement anyways.

You can at least address issues outside of QB this draft and you're ready either way.

[BrianS]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not interested in tanking for anybody.

The whole idea is honestly kind of silly.

Further, I don't know how it's possible for us to tank enough to get him.  We still employ CMC.  The guy is going to win us a couple games all on his own.  As bad as we may be, we're still going to win a 4 or 5 games just through sheer luck and the amazing RB we employ.  Let's face it, it's damn hard to lose more than 10 games.  The Dolphins absolutely tanked as hard as they possibly could and yet STILL wound up winning five games.

You have to be a VERY special sort of awful to lose more than 12 games.

[Snake]

47 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I feel fairly certain we're going to lose a lot of games this year whether we're trying to or not.

This, I don't think even if we are trying we would win more than 6 games. 

[Soul Rebel]

36 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Cam is 30, not 40. If we keep Cam and he plays well and stays healthy and we're in playoff contention at 9-7 just re-sign Cam and roll on.

This is what drives me crazy about the "Cam is done" narrative. How many QBs in the league are considered "done" at 31 years old, coming off an injury.

Yes, Cam has taken a beating more so than others due to a shoddy o-line and no weapons for so long.

Yes, mobile QBs wear down quicker.

Yes, Cam is coming off a rotator and lisfranc injuries in b2b years. 

However, Cam is not a typical QB from a build standpoint. He is built like a linebacker and as athletic as a nimble tight end. There has never been one before him and there isn't one currently in the league sans possibly Deshaun. 

If anyone can bounce back, modify his style in a creative genius' offensive scheme, surrounded by a weapon like CMC and two potential threats like DJ and Samuel, it's Cam. 

If he can't make it, then I'll wait until he proves he can't. The man has earned that much, has he not?

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

This is what drives me crazy about the "Cam is done" narrative. How many QBs in the league are considered "done" at 31 years old, coming off an injury.

Yes, Cam has taken a beating more so than others due to a shoddy o-line and no weapons for so long.

Yes, mobile QBs wear down quicker.

Yes, Cam is coming off a rotator and lisfranc injuries in b2b years. 

However, Cam is not a typical QB from a build standpoint. He is built like a linebacker and as athletic as a nimble tight end. There has never been one before him and there isn't one currently in the league sans possibly Deshaun. 

If anyone can bounce back, modify his style in a creative genius' offensive scheme, surrounded by a weapon like CMC and two potential threats like DJ and Samuel, it's Cam. 

If he can't make it, then I'll wait until he proves he can't. The man has earned that much, has he not?

Watson is 3" shorter and 40 pounds lighter... and probably a full tenth slower in the 40. Cam really is a one of a kind physical specimen at QB.

[t96]

1 hour ago, mc52beast said:

When was the last time Cam was healthy? Probably the last time he won a game.

Not a bad idea then.... if he’s healthy we win games and keep him. If he’s not healthy we lose and get Lawrence...

[Sgt Schultz]

I've said this before, but trying to tank to secure the #1 or even top 3 spot rarely works.  The Miami Dolphins looked like they were trying it this year, and they are drafting #5.  No matter how bad you try to be, there are always going to be teams worse than you imagine.  Either because they are that bad, or they suffer enough injuries that what is left makes them that bad.

But, I am going to echo something somebody said on another thread.  Can we knock off the "if we do this, we are going to be just like the Cleveland Browns" nonsense.  The Browns did not become the poster child for futility by one decision....or three....or five.  It took 15 years worth.  So there is NOTHING the Panthers are going to do with one move or in one offseason that is going to render this team to that level.

Also, on the subject of exaggerations and misconceptions, a top 5 pick is not the only place teams find QBs.  We won't get into Brady, as that was an outlier.  If you look down the list of starting NFL QBs, half or more were picked in the first round.  The better ones look like they were picked after the 7-10 mark.  I think Mahomes was a #10 pick.  Rodgers was something like #24.  Some of the ones that were top five are starters, but the jury is still out.  Point is, it just depends on the QB crop in a given year. 

Finally, the statement about Cam being a linebacker physique.  Hasn't he lost something like 25 pounds?  And unlike Jamarcus Russell, when he goes in for a physical, the doctor doesn't start the conversation with "you could stand to lose a few pounds."  Point is, physically, he is not the same QB he was a few years ago.  I don't want him trying to run over LBs if he is 20-25 pounds lighter.  That will not end well.

That said, I've always wanted him back for 2020 and hoped he would perform well.  I have no illusions about 2015 all over again.  I think that horse left the barn.  But, I think there is another level of good that does not involve running like he is 26 again.  However, if we are going into full rebuild mode and somehow avoid shoring up the OL this year, I would just as soon we move him somewhere where he won't get murdered back there.  We owe him that.  If we can find OL that can demonstrate a working knowledge of pass blocking, then my answer is different.

[stbugs]

Man the word tank really gets some people worked up. We’ve done it before and worked both times. We went 5-11. We lost Olsen and Luke. We may trade Cam or release him. We have a ton of FAs on a defense that was already horrific. If the plan is a true rebuild, we are effectively tanking if we let our FAs go and move on from Cam. We aren’t good enough. CMC isn’t winning 4-5 games. He was there with Grier and we barely scored at all.

Moving on from Cam and not signing FAs makes us the prohibitive favorites for the top pick. Sure, Miami didn’t do a great job and yet they still ended up with a top 5 pick. They likely still get the #2 QB who might have been #1 if he didn’t get hurt. Also, Miami beat Cincinnati by 3, beat the Jets, beat the Hoyer led Colts by 4, beat the Eagles and beat NE by 3. Miami wasn’t exactly a great team. Cincy was 1-15. Miami beat the Colts in their post Brissett 2-7 finish (beat Jax and of course us), beat the Jets at the end of the Jets 1-7 start.

Anyway, enough about Miami. If we want to have a top 1-3 pick, it would be easy. 

[LinvilleGorge]

How is letting your defensive free agents walk a bad thing when your defense was terrible?

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Man the word tank really gets some people worked up. We’ve done it before and worked both times. We went 5-11. We lost Olsen and Luke. We may trade Cam or release him. We have a ton of FAs on a defense that was already horrific. If the plan is a true rebuild, we are effectively tanking if we let our FAs go and move on from Cam. We aren’t good enough. CMC isn’t winning 4-5 games. He was there with Grier and we barely scored at all.

Moving on from Cam and not signing FAs makes us the prohibitive favorites for the top pick. Sure, Miami didn’t do a great job and yet they still ended up with a top 5 pick. They likely still get the #2 QB who might have been #1 if he didn’t get hurt. Also, Miami beat Cincinnati by 3, beat the Jets, beat the Hoyer led Colts by 4, beat the Eagles and beat NE by 3. Miami wasn’t exactly a great team. Cincy was 1-15. Miami beat the Colts in their post Brissett 2-7 finish (beat Jax and of course us), beat the Jets at the end of the Jets 1-7 start.

Anyway, enough about Miami. If we want to have a top 1-3 pick, it would be easy. 

If you look historically at vegas odds and win totals then they normally get it pretty close.   We are currently 2nd to last.   We are in full blown tank mode

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

How is letting your defensive free agents walk a bad thing when your defense was terrible?

Who replaces them?

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Who replaces them?

You want to hang onto terrible for fear of being worse? Pure loser mentality.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You want to hang onto terrible for fear of being worse? Pure loser mentality.

Who replaces them?