TD with some Cam thoughts

[thefuzz]

55 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I disagree. At least as far as the offense is concerned. He's never had this many weapons and speed. And he's had olines just as bad if not worse, with no potential to get better. Though I admit this oline needs work. 

Also it's pretty difficult to judge a QB by wins/losses when he's playing for a defensive minded coach with no clue of how to run an offense or put together a respectable set of pieces around a QB. Or scheme route combinations. Or make in-game adjustments based on what the other team is doing. Or make minor wrinkles so the defense doesn't get the same look from weeks ago. Or... 

This is a team sport, and no matter how often we say that we just need a little more O Line help, it seemingly never comes.

This team, if fielded the way they are trending, takes the field, it will be the worst team talent wise, that Cam has ever played on since he was drafted.

You have to include the defense, especially considering just how bad we were last year, and that we lost or are losing our 2 best defenders.

[GoobyPls]

31 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

No, we haven't.

Cam has had 9 years here, we have 3 winning seasons in those 9 years.  We can blame that on a multitude of things, but the facts remain, 3 winning seasons out of 9, and now we think if he's healthy we can be back in the playoffs again?  Just like that, a snap of the fingers and a little fairy dust make it true?

 

Again key point being when healthy. You are counting season like last season when Cam played 2 games.

 

In the 7 seasons Cam has played we made the playoffs 4 times and even his rookie year we were competitive 

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, GoobyPls said:

Again key point being when healthy. You are counting season like last season when Cam played 2 games.

 

In the 7 seasons Cam has played we made the playoffs 4 times and even his rookie year we were competitive 

I'm counting the seasons in which we counted on Cam Newton to be the starting QB of the Carolina Panthers.

We have 3 winning seasons out of the 9 Cam has been here, that cannot be debated.  Now what has caused that less than ideal outcome can be debated, but it's simply not possible to say with a straight face, that with a healthy Cam that this team is "good to go".  Now had we made the playoffs every season that Cam was starting for 16, then I could agree with that, to a certain extent, but the facts remain, this team is in bad shape, and Cam is still injured.

 

[Car123]

2 hours ago, Navy_football said:

Oh how soon we forget. If Cam is healthy (that's not to say he'll never get injured again) then he doesn't need much help on the offensive side of the ball. Why is that so hard to understand? He doesn't need pro bowl WRs or RBs or even average OC playcalling to get to the Super Bowl. He needs average to slightly above average protection in the pocket. This isn't theory people. This has been proven. 

Now imagine CMC, Moore, and Samuel in 2015 with Brady calling plays? If you can't be excited about that reality, then you really need to re-evaluate your motives. Fix the oline. Fix the interior dline. Bring back Cam. Kick everyone's Arse!

Some people are seriously underestimating the talent on the roster. It’s no coincidence that we played awful right after Cam Newton was declared out for the season.

[Car123]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

Now imagine this...

What is Cam's winning seasons vs. losing seasons since he has been with the Panthers, healthy or not?

Cam is great, but he simply isn't good enough to carry this team to the playoffs year in and year out, this has been proven over his career here.  I keep hearing/seeing this "if Cam is healthy, we are a playoff team" when even when Cam was healthy, half the years we were not a playoff team, and those teams had more talent than the team we will field in 2020.

If Cam comes back, this would likely be the least talented team he has played on during his career here.

2011/2012 - how many high first rd draft picks are carrying teams to the playoffs in their first two seasons?

2013-2017 (Last time we had a healthy Cam) - playoffs in 3/4 seasons. 2016 would have been a playoff team if the secondary wasn’t dismantled.

Point is a healthy Cam can carry a team to the playoffs.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, Car123 said:

2011/2012 - how many 1st/2nd year qbs are carrying teams to the playoffs?

2013-2017 (Last time we had a healthy Cam) - playoffs in 3/4 season. 2016 would have been a playoff team if the secondary wasn’t dismantled.

Point is a healthy Cam can carry a team to the playoffs.

Can.....can carry a team to the playoffs, that is the correct wording.

Will is a completely different story all together. 

Now Cam is going to have to change his style of play, learn a new playbook, mesh with a new playcaller, get healthy, stay healthy, shake off the rust of missing LOTs of practices and games over the past 2 seasons, and decide to play out his contract, all the while being good enough to carry a worst in the NFL defense to the playoffs.....

That's a lot to ask if we are being honest.

[(ATL'ien)CamNewton]

1 hour ago, GoobyPls said:

In 2017 we went 11-5 with the worst WR core in the nfl and Shula calling plays. This current team is twice as talented (offensively) and the coaching is twice as superior.

Yes. This team Week 1 2020 will be a lot better than in 2017 when we went 11-5 ..

If Cam is healthy, this team will be great.

[joeyxfresco]

Doesn't look good for fans who want Cam to stay. 

The team might be on the brink of making one of the worst decisions in its short history if Cam proves he can still play and the next team reaps the benefits. 

I feel like we won’t find our next franchise QB for a while or at least while we have CMC/DJ/Samuel on rookie contracts. It’s a shame. A returning Cam with these weapons and Joe Brady could’ve been special. Some good moves in the offseason with a competent GM could have had us contend this year. I personally think it’s a mistake to blow it up now that we have new coaching staff.

[TheRed]

7 minutes ago, joeyxfresco said:

Doesn't look good for fans who want Cam to stay. 

The team might be on the brink of making one of the worst decisions in its short history if Cam proves he can still play and the next team reaps the benefits. 

I feel like we won’t find our next franchise QB for a while or at least while we have CMC/DJ/Samuel on rookie contracts. It’s a shame. A returning Cam with these weapons and Joe Brady could’ve been special. Some good moves in the offseason with a competent GM could have had us contend this year. I personally think it’s a mistake to blow it up now that we have new coaching staff.

The way we are going about this is how you sabotage yourself and make potential franchise quarterbacks you could bring in hesitant to consider this team as an option. This is an embarrassment.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, TheRed said:

The way we are going about this is how you sabotage yourself and make potential franchise quarterbacks you could bring in hesitant to consider this team as an option. This is an embarrassment.

This has never been the case, and will never be the case.

There is nothing embarrassing about this, it's business.

[TheRed]

Just now, thefuzz said:

This has never been the case, and will never be the case.

There is nothing embarrassing about this, it's business.

Disagree completely. Thanks for the quote though.

[thefuzz]

Just now, TheRed said:

Disagree completely. Thanks for the quote though.

Explain exactly what is embarrassing about this.

This team finds itself in a very uncomfortable position, partly due to their mismanagement, partly due to Cam, partly due to the CBA and the league year, etc...

The timing is unfortunate, but I have seen scant little that is embarrassing.  Fill me in.

[TheRed]

6 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Explain exactly what is embarrassing about this.

This team finds itself in a very uncomfortable position, partly due to their mismanagement, partly due to Cam, partly due to the CBA and the league year, etc...

The timing is unfortunate, but I have seen scant little that is embarrassing.  Fill me in.

Players talk to each other, even moreso now with social media being so prevalent. I'm not saying unequivocally no one will want to sign with us, but if you think this will have zero effect whatsoever you are dreaming.

[thefuzz]

Just now, TheRed said:

Players talk to each other, even moreso now with social media being so prevalent. I'm not saying unequivocally no one will want to sign with us, but if you think this will have zero effect whatsoever you are dreaming.

I'm more interested in the embarrassing part that you eluded to.

And no, I don't give two shits about players talking to each other, this isn't the NBA, the teams still hold the power here, and will for the foreseeable future.