TD with some Cam thoughts

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Half of this is gloom and doom, Kyle Allen was a professional folding chair the second half of the season anytime he senses pressure which majority the time involved him running Into pressure.

the defense was atrocious runs defense wise because Ron let Washington turn them into a laughing stock.

i mean the team is bad but not far from being a contender, especially the offense. Reality is Ron held this team back a lot more than the talent on the roster has. 

Being garbage enough to get a mvp qb You’d hope we’d hold onto him at least until mid thirties but we got people wanting to do the opposite like franchise qb grow on trees 
 

 

 

 

This team is 1-15 the past two years when it counted after the midpoint. We just lost Luke and Greg and likely a bunch more FAs and you think we are close to contending?

I’ll say it again, our 2015 #1 scoring offense barely out scored our 2019 defense which is about to be worse or just as bad. That’s not even getting into how much the turnovers (led the league by far) of the 2015 defense helped the 2015 offense.

I hate to “throw away” Cam but we aren’t contenders with him and the point is that after 2020 or before 2020, he’s going to want a big extension if he’s healthy. IMHO, and remember I don’t run the team so my opinion is just that, I’d rather go for a 2021 cheap QB, draft a lot of talent with high picks like this year, use all the comp picks we could get in 2021, get a 2nd for Cam (shouldn’t be hard) and go for it with the extra cap in 2022/2023 through 2025/2026. I think that’s our best chance to win a SB. 

[thefuzz]

16 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

It means Cam is a franchise QB able to carry an offense

 

unless you doubt that 

Cam isn't good enough to carry this team to "we are good" territory.  Hell, no QB in the NFL is.

Team was awful last season, and that team will look like a Pro Bowl roster compared to the one we will field this coming season.

 

[thefuzz]

11 hours ago, stbugs said:

This team is 1-15 the past two years when it counted after the midpoint. We just lost Luke and Greg and likely a bunch more FAs and you think we are close to contending?

I’ll say it again, our 2015 #1 scoring offense barely out scored our 2019 defense which is about to be worse or just as bad. That’s not even getting into how much the turnovers (led the league by far) of the 2015 defense helped the 2015 offense.

I hate to “throw away” Cam but we aren’t contenders with him and the point is that after 2020 or before 2020, he’s going to want a big extension if he’s healthy. IMHO, and remember I don’t run the team so my opinion is just that, I’d rather go for a 2021 cheap QB, draft a lot of talent with high picks like this year, use all the comp picks we could get in 2021, get a 2nd for Cam (shouldn’t be hard) and go for it with the extra cap in 2022/2023 through 2025/2026. I think that’s our best chance to win a SB. 

I agree with this, it's our best chance, but it is a chance and fans need to be aware of that little piece...however this road that we have been on is clearly not working, time for a shake up, even if it doesn't work out.

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

I agree with this, it's our best chance, but it is a chance and fans need to be aware of that little piece...however this road that we have been on is clearly not working, time for a shake up, even if it doesn't work out.

Exactly. We could have played it safe and stuck with Ron. We could play it safe and try to get Cam back to where he was and hope we have enough cap and picks to fill in around him. I’d rather shake things up because we have clearly been on the downswing since the SB. We seem to have a 10 year cycle. Rebuild and then playoff runs and a SB, then a fall apart, change coach and QBS and back to rebuild. We are in the falling apart/change coach part. Do we move on from Cam too?

[Navy_football]

Oh how soon we forget. If Cam is healthy (that's not to say he'll never get injured again) then he doesn't need much help on the offensive side of the ball. Why is that so hard to understand? He doesn't need pro bowl WRs or RBs or even average OC playcalling to get to the Super Bowl. He needs average to slightly above average protection in the pocket. This isn't theory people. This has been proven. 

Now imagine CMC, Moore, and Samuel in 2015 with Brady calling plays? If you can't be excited about that reality, then you really need to re-evaluate your motives. Fix the oline. Fix the interior dline. Bring back Cam. Kick everyone's Arse!

[thefuzz]

26 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Oh how soon we forget. If Cam is healthy (that's not to say he'll never get injured again) then he doesn't need much help on the offensive side of the ball. Why is that so hard to understand? He doesn't need pro bowl WRs or RBs or even average OC playcalling to get to the Super Bowl. He needs average to slightly above average protection in the pocket. This isn't theory people. This has been proven. 

Now imagine CMC, Moore, and Samuel in 2015 with Brady calling plays? If you can't be excited about that reality, then you really need to re-evaluate your motives. Fix the oline. Fix the interior dline. Bring back Cam. Kick everyone's Arse!

Now imagine this...

What is Cam's winning seasons vs. losing seasons since he has been with the Panthers, healthy or not?

Cam is great, but he simply isn't good enough to carry this team to the playoffs year in and year out, this has been proven over his career here.  I keep hearing/seeing this "if Cam is healthy, we are a playoff team" when even when Cam was healthy, half the years we were not a playoff team, and those teams had more talent than the team we will field in 2020.

If Cam comes back, this would likely be the least talented team he has played on during his career here.

[(ATL'ien)CamNewton]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

If Cam comes back, this would likely be the least talented team he has played on during his career here.

That's where you and everybody else is wrong. This team was good enough to make Kyle Allen look like a starting QB for a month - they just couldn't sustain the high level of play without some help from the QB ..

Moore is the best WR by far Cam's ever had. CMC ..

We have arguably the best RB/WR combo right now in the NFL.

You are crazy. This team is solid.

[Navy_football]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Now imagine this...

What is Cam's winning seasons vs. losing seasons since he has been with the Panthers, healthy or not?

Cam is great, but he simply isn't good enough to carry this team to the playoffs year in and year out, this has been proven over his career here.  I keep hearing/seeing this "if Cam is healthy, we are a playoff team" when even when Cam was healthy, half the years we were not a playoff team, and those teams had more talent than the team we will field in 2020.

If Cam comes back, this would likely be the least talented team he has played on during his career here.

I disagree. At least as far as the offense is concerned. He's never had this many weapons and speed. And he's had olines just as bad if not worse, with no potential to get better. Though I admit this oline needs work. 

Also it's pretty difficult to judge a QB by wins/losses when he's playing for a defensive minded coach with no clue of how to run an offense or put together a respectable set of pieces around a QB. Or scheme route combinations. Or make in-game adjustments based on what the other team is doing. Or make minor wrinkles so the defense doesn't get the same look from weeks ago. Or... 

[blackcat]

18 minutes ago, (ATL'ien)CamNewton said:

That's where you and everybody else is wrong. This team was good enough to make Kyle Allen look like a starting QB for a month - they just couldn't sustain the high level of play without some help from the QB ..

Moore is the best WR by far Cam's ever had. CMC ..

We have arguably the best RB/WR combo right now in the NFL.

You are crazy. This team is solid.

Steve Smith says hi.

[(ATL'ien)CamNewton]

1 minute ago, blackcat said:

Steve Smith says hi.

Yeeeeeah .. when Smith had no QB in 2010 he had 500 yards ..

When Moore had no QB in 2019 he had 1,100 ..

Plus - the youngest Steve Smith Cam ever had to work with was 32

[GoobyPls]

3 hours ago, thefuzz said:

Cam isn't good enough to carry this team to "we are good" territory.  Hell, no QB in the NFL is.

Team was awful last season, and that team will look like a Pro Bowl roster compared to the one we will field this coming season.

 

In 2017 we went 11-5 with the worst WR core in the nfl and Shula calling plays. This current team is twice as talented (offensively) and the coaching is twice as superior.

[thefuzz]

19 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

In 2017 we went 11-5 with the worst WR core in the nfl and Shula calling plays. This current team is twice as talented (offensively) and the coaching is twice as superior.

TEAM, not offense.

We aren't close to competing, this team is horribly put together.

[GoobyPls]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

TEAM, not offense.

We aren't close to competing, this team is horribly put together.

A great offense can carry a bad D. 
 

As long as Cam is healthy this team has always been competitive even in the down years.

[thefuzz]

Just now, GoobyPls said:

A great offense can carry a bad D. 
 

As long as Cam is healthy this team has always been competitive even in the down years.

No, we haven't.

Cam has had 9 years here, we have 3 winning seasons in those 9 years.  We can blame that on a multitude of things, but the facts remain, 3 winning seasons out of 9, and now we think if he's healthy we can be back in the playoffs again?  Just like that, a snap of the fingers and a little fairy dust make it true?