Chargers receiving "Unsolicited Calls" Regarding a Cam Newton Trade

[TheRed]

33 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I know people get emotional, and they do even if they don’t want to admit it, about Cam but trading him and trading CMC are two completely different decisions. You are talking about a guy who would be 32-36 from 2021 to 2025, costing @ $35M per year and having been injured every year since 2016 versus a guy who would be 25-29, costing @ $15M per year and having no injury history. If CMC wasn’t 21 as a rookie, but was 23 and the next contract was 27-31, then I’d think differently.

You're absolutely right that the situation is different. It's different because very few NFL teams currently are experiencing thriving success by paying one running back a kings ransom. They just aren't winning by forcing the ball through one back. The 49ers use multiple backs, and the Chiefs dropped Kareem Hunt who was at the time the best RB in the league like a hot potato. Last I checked they just won the Super Bowl with Damien Williams and LeSean McCoy in the backfield.

Have you looked up the RB salary numbers?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/#

Come back and tell me the combined record of the top 6 teams with the running backs making the highest salary.

BTW. Get a real nice look at where Mostert and Williams are on that list.

[DubE_4MR]

24 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

You are all right--we do not have sources, we have speculation from experts.  Since we have a new owner and things seem to be different now, here is what we KNOW:

1. The team had no problem letting Olsen walk (refused to pay his contract).

2.  There seems to be no movement on deals with Bradberry or Boston, even though they said they were in negotiations last month.

3.  There has been (to the best of my knowledge) no noise about re-signing Addison.

4.  We re-signed Slye, Luke, Obada, and Reggie Bon Bon to one year extensions.

5. Wes Horton (age 30, I think), and Luke announce retirements. 

6. Panthers sign former second round bust TJ Green a player cut in Indy, Seattle, and New Orleans in his 3-year career.

7.  Panthers hire Rhule and most of a staff known for developing talent and turning around franchises. 

8.  Tepper suggests, through contracts and statements, that he envisions a slow rebuild--not a quick fix--and that he is not a fan of "mediocrity."  (It is fair to say that mediocrity is the best way to describe a team without consecutive winning seasons in 26 years)

9.  Cam Newton has started just 17 of the team's past 32 games and has not been effective since October, 2018. 

10.  Cam Newton has had surgery during the last 3 off seasons. 

11.  Cam Newton will be 31--not old for a QB, oldish for a running QB.

12.  Cam Newton's salary is a bargain in today's market at $21m for a franchise QB; to be a franchise QB, you have to be healthy, however.

13.  The Panther organization seems noncommittal when asked direct questions about Newton's future.  In the past, any player under contract has been given reassurances in similar situations.   That could mean more about the new regime's policies and hierarchy than anything about Cam, or it could suggest that the team is moving on.  There is little to suggest that a decision to go with Cam has been made.

14. Cam has stated that he is coming back and mentioned that he is working to return to 100%.

15. In terms of rebuilding a team, Tepper was teenager in Pittsburgh when the team hired Noll to fix the franchise.  The first thing they did was draft Bradshaw, a player that sucked his first year (38% completion rate).  He saw that develop into a dynasty. 

16.  Cam Newton has 1 year remaining on his contract at $21m.  Cutting or trading him frees nearly all of that amount from the cap.

17.  They have not re-signed Kyle Allen yet.

I tried to consider angles that might produce evidence to suggest that Cam is staying.  It is hard to find.  All of the evidence (circumstantially) suggests that he is being shopped.  Furthermore, there is some evidence that suggests we are in tank mode.

 

Q:  After re-signing Shaq Thompson during the season, what have the panthers done?  Signed players fighting for roster spots.  Maybe that is the norm, but we can sign our own and there is nothing coming down the pipeline.  No Tweets, no anything to suggest there are active, productive talks.  Than means little, but all we have is little.

Q:  What does the retirement of Horton and the signing of Slye tell us, if anything?  Horton (30) should have been excited to hang around, considering the fact that Irvin and Addison are likely goners in a youth movement.  We need 4-3 DEs.  Slye, on the other hand, was scary last year, but he has a strong leg and Gano has a $4+ m contract. 

Q:  Why would the Panther organization NOT tell reporters that Cam is under contract and he is our man in 2020.  If they are planning to keep him beyond that, why are they not negotiating an extension--pending his passing a physical?  All Cam said was, "We had a good meeting."

Q: Who called the meeting where Cam sat down with Tepper, Hurney, and Rhule? 

So if you look at the facts and try to make some sense of where they are heading, it does appear that they are signing cheap players and letting established players go.  Slye vs. Gano is a great example of that--you could argue that there will be a camp competition, but lets see if it ever gets to that point.  

And the biggest question that is not really addressed here effectively:  "What are and who made 'unsolicited calls'?"

Final Thoughts:  It does not look good for Cam's return, but we are simply trying to analyze a hand before it has been played.  There is a lot we do not know, a bunch of variables.  You can't even trust what is being said.

My theory?  They are going to shop Cam and if they get no takers, the are going to release him.  They could play him for one season, but I see no evidence of interest in a long-term deal at this time.  If you do, please show the evidence--not your heart strings---and we can build a fact-based perspective together.
 

 

 

You should turn this into an article. It's been so difficult to find a reasonable, level headed take on the QB situation. Only thing I would add is that there have been no reports of contract extension talks with Cam either. So even if he does play out the final year of his deal, are Tepper and Co. going to commit $30M+ to him beyond that?

[TheRed]

Just now, DubE_4MR said:

You should turn this into an article. It's been so difficult to find a reasonable, level headed take on the QB situation. Only thing I would add is that there have been no reports of contract extension talks with Cam either. So even if he does play out the final year of his deal, are Tepper and Co. going to commit $30M+ to him beyond that?

The same guy with the "reasonable level headed take on the QB situation" wanted us to sign Kyle Allen to an extension back in October. Slow your brakes a bit.

[Happy Panther]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

They tweeted it last week.  Jourdan said she thinks its 50% he is back and Person said 15%.  Other beat writers are not joining in with the speculation.  Now do you think that all of these reporters are just making things up or that they actually have some sources in the front office? 

 

There are just too many people saying that the panthers want to move on from him for it not to be true.  I mean damn dude our own beat writers are pessimistic at best that he is back.  That is pretty telling.

This?

Quote

 

Jourdan: This one is tough. I can see the Panthers attempting to convince Newton to be a “bridge” quarterback, as in, a veteran presence for another year as a young quarterback takes a season to develop. But would he want that? It would be hard to advise Newton to take another snap without any guarantees past this season, if I’m in his camp, too, considering his age and injury history. Without knowing how healthy he will come out of his Lisfranc surgery and rehab, I hesitate to form a stronger take than 50-50 odds.

Joe: I’ll say 15 percent, just to account for the wild card that is Tepper, who likes to zig when others are zagging. I’ve just never thought it made sense, if you’re going to do a tear down and rebuild, to do so with a 31-year-old quarterback who can’t be real keen on being part of an overhaul in Carolina. It’s not even about the $19 million the Panthers would save by cutting or trading Newton (though that can’t be ignored). It’s about a fresh start for both sides after a wild, nine-year ride.

 

There is nothing that suggests this is sourced. It is presented as pure opinion. As others have stated they don't know jack. If they had real sources it would be front page news everywhere. It isn't.

[MHS831]

A longshot theory, based on nearly nothing significant:  Rhule made some positive comments about Grier as a college player--he coached against him in the Big 12. The team has not signed Kyle Allen and Cam's future is uncertain.  Does he think he can develop Will Grier into an NFL QB?

Hear me out:  At Temple and at Baylor, Rhule inherited terrible teams. No top high school talent wants to go to a 1-13 team.  You get what is left over and walk-ons.   In three years at both schools, he took those players and made them beat the players that would not come to Temple or Baylor.  How did he do that?  There are not many other explanations.

What if Rhule has seen the film and figures that Grier fits what he wants to do, he has a strong mind to work with Grier, and if he builds around Grier, he can make him effective? This is not to suggest that there is no Plan B, but what if?  He has done it before out of necessity--will he try it again?

 

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

Does he think he can develop Will Grier into an NFL QB?

This is satire, right?

[TheRed]

MHS thought it was a great idea to pay Kyle Allen a bundle of money after a handful of games, now Will Grier is apparently actually a legit NFL QB just waiting to be discovered by the right coach.

Genius!

[MHS831]

6 minutes ago, DubE_4MR said:

You should turn this into an article. It's been so difficult to find a reasonable, level headed take on the QB situation. Only thing I would add is that there have been no reports of contract extension talks with Cam either. So even if he does play out the final year of his deal, are Tepper and Co. going to commit $30M+ to him beyond that?

In one of the Questions toward the end I do ask about any noise of a Cam contract extension---but thanks very much for the compliment.  This time of the year is like playing poker--you just try to guess what hand the team has to play by guessing at the tells.  Gonna be interesting.

You could argue that they are all waiting for the Cam workout rumored to be in March.  But if you look for clues about their overall theory or approach, extending him makes little sense.

[DubE_4MR]

6 minutes ago, TheRed said:

The same guy with the "reasonable level headed take on the QB situation" wanted us to sign Kyle Allen to an extension back in October. Slow your brakes a bit.

Well the "Kyle Allen is the future" talk in general was all hot takes. But he can solidify the backup QB position for cheap and allow the team to build elsewhere. 

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, TheRed said:

This is satire, right?

I asked what Rhule thought, not Red.  Understand the context and it opens up a world of possibilities. I explain the reason for the statement clearly without ambiguities or figurative language.  Your opinion of Grier was not considered--and no, this is literal language.

I see you are back in attack mode, Red.  Time to let it go.  I am making points without attacking others--have you ever considered that approach?  If only your self esteem was not so directly aligned with what happens here.

[DubE_4MR]

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

A longshot theory, based on nearly nothing significant:  Rhule made some positive comments about Grier as a college player--he coached against him in the Big 12. The team has not signed Kyle Allen and Cam's future is uncertain.  Does he think he can develop Will Grier into an NFL QB?

Hear me out:  At Temple and at Baylor, Rhule inherited terrible teams. No top high school talent wants to go to a 1-13 team.  You get what is left over and walk-ons.   In three years at both schools, he took those players and made them beat the players that would not come to Temple or Baylor.  How did he do that?  There are not many other explanations.

What if Rhule has seen the film and figures that Grier fits what he wants to do, he has a strong mind to work with Grier, and if he builds around Grier, he can make him effective? This is not to suggest that there is no Plan B, but what if?  He has done it before out of necessity--will he try it again?

 

I think Kyle Allen will get signed soon. It only costs a few hundred thousand.

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

I asked what Rhule thought, not Red.  Understand the context and it opens up a world of possibilities. I explain the reason for the statement clearly without ambiguities or figurative language.  Your opinion of Grier was not considered--and no, this is literal language.

Where Will Grier currently is as a potential starting NFL quarterback isn't a mere opinion. We have game film. He was arguably worse than Kyle Allen who threw 16 picks through 9 games. There is being a homer, and then there is being irrational. Expecting Grier to make a magical turnaround exceeds homerism.

[Jon Snow]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

In one of the Questions toward the end I do ask about any noise of a Cam contract extension---but thanks very much for the compliment.  This time of the year is like playing poker--you just try to guess what hand the team has to play by guessing at the tells.  Gonna be interesting.

You could argue that they are all waiting for the Cam workout rumored to be in March.  But if you look for clues about their overall theory or approach, extending him makes little sense.

I just do not see an extension being offered regardless of how this "workout" goes.  This whole situation reeks of salary dumps for 2021.  

[MountaineerChemist10]

Until it happens, I never believe NFL rumors. Bunch of blah blah blah & yadda yadda yadda.