Another year, another draft thread.

[Soul Rebel]

35 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Have you seen Henderson tackle?  Okudah may not have the 40 time Henderson did, but is a fearless tackler.  Henderson is edge corner that is timid with in the box tackling.  We already have Action Jackson trying to tackle guys by their shoe strings.  A trade down to the mid-teens, sure, I'd take Henderson, but not at #7 where there are better players.

Okudah is a stud.....PP or Revis level of lockdown CB1, and my top target for us (Burrow and Young excluded obviously). Henderson's tackling is not optimal, but he does do a lot of good as a boundary CB1. 

I too would not prefer him at 7, and value him after the top-10. There are a number of experts that say the gap between Okudah and Henderson is not that huge. 

[45catfan]

So you guys see the value (tier 5) in round 2 for CB, right?  I think they only did the top 50 prospects, so roughly half of the round two is cut off.  I would love how many CBs are in tier 6.  

Again, this is why you get Brown at #7.

[Jared Patterson]

Verge,

Are you or your guy hearing anything about what the Panthers will do at 7? Is the Henderson buzz real???

[TheSpecialJuan]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

This is GBN's Value Board.  For those thinking teams use a big board format on draft day, this is more typical of the format used.

GBN Value Board

GBN Value Board

Tier	Prospects
1	QB Joe Burrow DE Chase Young
2	LB Isaiah Simmons CB Jeff Okudah DT Derrick Brown QB Tua Tagovailoa
3	QB Justin Herbert WR CeeDee Lamb; Jerry Jeudy; Henry Ruggs; OT Tristan Wirfs; Jedrick Wills; Mehki Becton DT Javon Kinlaw
4	QB Jordan Love WR Justin Jefferson OT Andrew Thomas ER K'Lavon Chaisson LB Patrick Queen; Kenneth Murray CB CJ Henderson S Grant Delpit
5	QB Jacob Eason RB D'Andre Swift; Jonathan Taylor WR Tee Higgins; Denzel Mims; Brandon Aiyuk; Laviska Shenault OT Josh Jones; Ezra Cleveland; Austin Jackson C Cesar Ruiz DE Yetur Gross-Matos; AJ Epenesa DT Ross Blacklock LB Zack Baun CB Trevon Diggs; Kristian Fulton; AJ Terrell; Jaylon Johnson S Xavier McKinney

Good stuff here. Like I said before, if Isaiah Simmons or Derrick Brown are there @7 we take one of those two no matter what other teams offer us for a trade down. 

[45catfan]

A couple of DEs have been contacted, Greenard and Willekes.  Probably 4th round targets.

DEs Contacted

 

[WOW!!]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I agree-but the one year when Fox was a lame duck and he did not have much input from John Fox:

No first (traded for Brown)

2nd Clausen, offers to trade up, declined---Clausen fell to us--passing KC and Minnesota in the second round---after they passed on him in the first round--and they were desperate for a QB.

3rd.  Brandon Lafell---decent

3rd Trade up with NE to give them next year's 33rd pick:  Armanti Edwards

4th Eric Norwood.  Local kid made good---best for a 3-4?  Yes.

5th Greg Hardy:  Perhaps his best pick ever if you consider the round. 

So how good is Hurney if that was his unbridled draft?

 

You make a good point about some of his picks turning out well and some I wanted too.

Hurney is also terrible at certain positions---like DT.  He sucks at DT.  CB?  Not great.   WR?  After Smith---he did nothing to bring in quality WRs successfully until Norv Turner salivated over Moore.  In fact, we got Carter based on Norv's visit to MD. 

 

But let's be real is it his fault or the player not living up to his potential.. 

DT I agree he was finding his DT in FA not the draft.. Most were later round picks expect (Fua Irvin and Mclain) .. Like Jovan Haye, Kindle Moorehead were not top 3 round picks... So was that a Fox thing where he didn't target or develop  Rookie Dt alot is the question.. They really never target DT in the 1st and 2nd round until Gentlemen..

WR is a different story ... Let's be honest alot of his picks other then (Armamti) were players most liked that didn't work out for different reason.. They weren't bad Prospects...

David Gettis - size and speed combination in the 6th was a good pick for a developmental player.. Injuries done him in..

Jarret and Colbert were supposed to be beast coming out of USC.. They both had the production and film that you want out of a draft prospect..

Colbert had WR records at USC and Jarret  was supposed to be Keyshawn Johnson.. Not bad picks just bad players..

Jarrett was suppose to be a absolute monster...

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dwayne-jarrett-1.html

Dude had a 91 rec. 1200 yard 16 TD season as a sophomore... I can't blame Hurney for that pick. 

Ryne was a special team guy in the 4th round.. 

Drew Carter was a 5th round size speed combo development guy again..

http://www.draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=287&DraftYear=2004

Can't blame him for that pick..

I would go on but let's not derail this thread with this conversation...

 

[45catfan]

Does anyone remember where the perspective draftee contact list is located?  Furthermore, care to update it?  Honestly it could be in this thread, but it's 35 pages long.

Most of the guys we draft the team has historically had contact with them.  A week until the draft, a compiled list would be interesting to see.

[TheSpecialJuan]

Albert Breer gives his thoughts: 

When a new coach comes in, he’ll often send a message with the first player he pays, or the first player he drafts, in holding that player up as indicative of the kind of guy he wants. McCaffrey certainly is that kind of guy. (And it’s why, honestly, I see someone like Auburn’s Derrick Brown being the team’s first draft pick under the new regime)

 

[Basbear]

2 hours ago, Soul Rebel said:

Henderson is not that far off from Okudah and is rumored to be moving up, possibly into the top-10. Might also be why we've ignored CB in FA because we are targeting Okudah and CJ.

That being said, I would prefer Brown and Simmons over him, but do understand if he is the selection when you look at our CB depth. Arguably lacking a CB1 and CB2 (I think Donte is a perfect high-end nickel/CB3).

Henderson is 6'1", 202lb and ran a 4.39 40. He also had very, very impressive combine numbers - 37.5" vert, 127 long jump and 20 bench reps. He is not Okudah, but Henderson is a very competent and promising CB1. 

I too would prefer a move back a couple of slots and add an asset or two, but I think the "player" we select in round 1 will be a very good player that will solidify whichever unit he is added to...... Brown/Kinlaw at DT, Simmons at LB/S, Okudah/Henderson at CB. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2886384-anonymous-gm-bets-40-percent-of-teams-rank-cj-henderson-ahead-of-jeff-okudah

 

Its lying time and all, but henderson did have a better combine than Okudah. Many say Henderson is a better overall zone/system fit than Okudah. Id still take Okudah for the panthers or any team/system. Hes already acts like a 8 year pro, I cause just love who he is, forget football side. Most times those types win and keep winning. 

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2886384-anonymous-gm-bets-40-percent-of-teams-rank-cj-henderson-ahead-of-jeff-okudah

 

Its lying time and all, but henderson did have a better combine than Okudah. Many say Henderson is a better overall zone/system fit than Okudah. Id still take Okudah for the panthers or any team/system. Hes already acts like a 8 year pro, I cause just love who he is, forget football side. Most times those types win and keep winning. 

That anonymous GM is Hurney.  I don't think I've seen any, I do mean A-N-Y BBs that ever had Henderson higher than Okudah.  I've seen looking at BBs since December.

[Basbear]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

That anonymous GM is Hurney.  I don't think I've seen any, I do mean A-N-Y BBs that ever had Henderson higher than Okudah.  I've seen looking at BBs since December.

I believe this started with Peter King, I dont see it either. But Im not good on ranking/judging CB as other spots.

 https://www.si.com/college/florida/football/2020-nfl-draft-cj-henderson-gators-best-cornerback-eric-crocker

Former player prefers CJ too, early report too.

I have seen a rumor that the panthers are one of teams that have CJ ranked high, idk if it was on twatter or not.  

[AU-panther]

11 minutes ago, Basbear said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2886384-anonymous-gm-bets-40-percent-of-teams-rank-cj-henderson-ahead-of-jeff-okudah

 

Its lying time and all, but henderson did have a better combine than Okudah. Many say Henderson is a better overall zone/system fit than Okudah. Id still take Okudah for the panthers or any team/system. Hes already acts like a 8 year pro, I cause just love who he is, forget football side. Most times those types win and keep winning. 

better combine? based on what?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-combine-results-jeff-okudah-c-j-henderson-stand-out-among-cornerback-winners-and-losers/

Okuda is taller, longer arms, longer wingspan, better vert, better long jump.  Only place Henderson did better was the 40, 4.39 vs 4.49, which 4.49 is plenty fast enough, especially given his size.

Also the wingspan of Okuda is ridiculous, 78 5/8 ", longest of any corner there.

To put that in perspective most people have wingspans closer to the same measurement of their height, so his wingspan is closer to somoone who is 6'6"

With the big receivers we have in our division, Okuda sounds perfect.

With all of that being said I like Henderson a lot also.  A lot of years he might be the first CB off the board.

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

So you guys see the value (tier 5) in round 2 for CB, right?  I think they only did the top 50 prospects, so roughly half of the round two is cut off.  I would love how many CBs are in tier 6.  

Again, this is why you get Brown at #7.

There is also a DT in that tier, and several more that will probably be good value in the 3rd round.

Also your table only has 42 people so there is no guarantee those CBs make it to pick 38, but I do like those CBs also.

Honestly we could go:

1st-DT and 2nd-CB or 1st-CB and 2nd-DT and get a good combo.

 

 

[Basbear]

7 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

better combine? based on what?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-combine-results-jeff-okudah-c-j-henderson-stand-out-among-cornerback-winners-and-losers/

Okuda is taller, longer arms, longer wingspan, better vert, better long jump.  Only place Henderson did better was the 40, 4.39 vs 4.49, which 4.49 is plenty fast enough, especially given his size.

Also the wingspan of Okuda is ridiculous, 78 5/8 ", longest of any corner there.

To put that in perspective most people have wingspans closer to the same measurement of their height, so his wingspan is closer to somoone who is 6'6"

With the big receivers we have in our division, Okuda sounds perfect.

With all of that being said I like Henderson a lot also.  A lot of years he might be the first CB off the board.

I heard his interviews were off, he didnt have the overall combine that many thought. He was over doing the thinking and trying too hard, whatever that means. He didnt meet the super expectations. Sort like if CMC only got 90/80 in a game other than 100/100.   

Plus he need medical help during a drill and had to pull out of other drills. His neck got dink'd.