The case against picking an offensive tackle

[beo]

So a common pick people like to make for us this year in the draft is offensive tackle and it's very understandable why given how weak the position was last year. So, I just wanna give my opinion on why I would personally go in a different direction.

 

First of all, last year we had a lot of injury issues. I personally think that those injury issues are the main reason we were so bad at tackle. The primary reason I think we should go elsewhere from OT though, is the fact that we still don't really know what we have in Greg Little. Little showed flashes here and there prior to injury and imo did a good job, and RT is arguably our best offensive line spot at the moment. LT depends on Little, but I don't nessicarily see why you'd pick a LT 7th overall before truly figuring out what you have in last years 2nd round pick who showed flashes of potential prior to injury. It feels like poor asset management to me. Even if Little bombs, we can still pick someone next year in which we'll likely have a decently high draft pick barring camvp.  I think we should go for a Guard, S (every damn year), LB, or DT. I'm also high on Isaiah Simmons, Clemson's star MLB that can run a 4.37 and has national championship experience with a sky high ceiling to boot, and i think that'd he would be the best pick for us, given how weak we are at LB (ofc that can change in f/a though). idk just my thoughts tho

[Newtron]

This game is won in the trenches. Yeah a flashy wide out would do wonders for fan opinion but if you want to build this team I feel you have to start from the inside out and upgrade the oline. That’s really how you have sustained success. 

[beo]

Just now, Newtron said:

This game is won in the trenches. Yeah a flashy wide out would do wonders for fan opinion but if you want to build this team I feel you have to start from the inside out and upgrade the oline. That’s really how you have sustained success. 

im totally against picking a WR or a skill position,  that'd be absolutely a bad idea. i suggested a G, LB, S, and DT.

[MHS831]

15 minutes ago, beo said:

So a common pick people like to make for us this year in the draft is offensive tackle and it's very understandable why given how weak the position was last year. So, I just wanna give my opinion on why I would personally go in a different direction.

 

First of all, last year we had a lot of injury issues. I personally think that those injury issues are the main reason we were so bad at tackle. The primary reason I think we should go elsewhere from OT though, is the fact that we still don't really know what we have in Greg Little. Little showed flashes here and there prior to injury and imo did a good job, and RT is arguably our best offensive line spot at the moment. LT depends on Little, but I don't nessicarily see why you'd pick a LT 7th overall before truly figuring out what you have in last years 2nd round pick who showed flashes of potential prior to injury. It feels like poor asset management to me. Even if Little bombs, we can still pick someone next year in which we'll likely have a decently high draft pick barring camvp.  I think we should go for a Guard, S (every damn year), LB, or DT. I'm also high on Isaiah Simmons, Clemson's star MLB that can run a 4.37 and has national championship experience with a sky high ceiling to boot, and i think that'd he would be the best pick for us, given how weak we are at LB (ofc that can change in f/a though). idk just my thoughts tho

You are absolutely right on all major points, in my opinion.  When you say "I think we should go for a G...."

Here is why I would take Thomas if he is on the board.  While there are no guarantees, he would be an upgrade over Little.  Little has the concussion issues, but he was never put into a position to succeed.  He showed flashes and flash floods.  He was picked on, and without a strong G or C, it simply was not fair.  He showed little growth in his mechanics, but he was out for a bunch of the preseason and season.  Give him a chance?  Yes you do.  But there are other options to utilize his talents.

1. Little vs Thomas:  Who wins the LT job if they were competing?  Thomas is the more polished player with the most upside. His college career was solid, where Little had inconsistencies.   So if you could upgrade LT, move Little to G (where he may get fewer concussions), is that the same as drafting a G?  I think Little would make a great G.  Suddenly, the left side of the line has a first rounder and early second rounder--developing, yes, but they have the coaches now to make them better.  Should you have an injury at LT, Little has the skill set to move out---so you have depth.  If you just draft a G and Little has another concussion or can't play LT---you have a bunch of Guards and no tackle.  Just my 2 cents--your thinking is right on the money, however.  We have nothing at DT--a developmental LT--why go LT and neglect DT?   I have read that Little might be a better G than T, but you can say that for a lot of players.

[1of10Charnatives]

The case against waiting to see what you have in Liitle is essentially this:

Doing so is literally gambling the health of your franchise Qb in a contract year with 3 years of injury history on Little both staying healthy and improving over “flashes”. The reason it isn’t poor asset management is that if he develops while playing at guard the coaching staff will know it.

You know what’s a truly awful awful problem to have as an NFL team? Having two guys on your line who can play LT well. God I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. I’d much rather we just run the risk of losing our franchise qb.

[stirs]

Value

When you are as talent starved as the Panthers are at the moment, you want value with you pick.  If you are picking 7th and the 2nd or 4th ranked best player is there, you take him.  I doubt at this point than any OT will be valued there.  The value at our pick, given that there might be 3 QB's taken before us, could be Brown, Simmons, or Okudah.  If however we take a guy rated as the 10th best player, then we have failed at getting value for our pick.  Now, I'd give a ton of money to know the ratings from an NFL player the week before the draft, but all we have are the talking heads and we know they are off base quite a bit.

[beo]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

You are absolutely right on all major points, in my opinion.  When you say "I think we should go for a G...."

Here is why I would take Thomas if he is on the board.  While there are no guarantees, he would be an upgrade over Little.  Little has the concussion issues, but he was never put into a position to succeed.  He showed flashes and flash floods.  He was picked on, and without a strong G or C, it simply was not fair.  He showed little growth in his mechanics, but he was out for a bunch of the preseason and season.  Give him a chance?  Yes you do.  But there are other options to utilize his talents.

1. Little vs Thomas:  Who wins the LT job if they were competing?  Thomas is the more polished player with the most upside. His college career was solid, where Little had inconsistencies.   So if you could upgrade LT, move Little to G (where he may get fewer concussions), is that the same as drafting a G?  I think Little would make a great G.  Suddenly, the left side of the line has a first rounder and early second rounder--developing, yes, but they have the coaches now to make them better.  Should you have an injury at LT, Little has the skill set to move out---so you have depth.  If you just draft a G and Little has another concussion or can't play LT---you have a bunch of Guards and no tackle.  Just my 2 cents--your thinking is right on the money, however.  We have nothing at DT--a developmental LT--why go LT and neglect DT?   I have read that Little might be a better G than T, but you can say that for a lot of players.

That's a good point and i can get that line of thinking but GVR isnt a total disaster at guard either, he'd be more suited as a depth player for sure but he's not absolutely horrific like paradis was last season. If so, why take a tackle with a top 10 selection which is an extremely valuable pick? Why not look around in say the 2nd or 3rd round, or later in the draft, as a plan B. If little doesnt work out and if we somehow get two poo tackles, then take one in the first round next year worst case scenario. I think LB is way more of a glaring hole now post-luke, because  I dont trust what we currently have there. we've got shaq and then 3rd stringers. A lot of this depends on free agency though too i'd say, but hell safety is a giant hole as well, and while DT on paper isnt as bad you can save a hell of a lot of cap space by letting Poe go and replacing him with derrick brown.

[JawnyBlaze]

Little usually looked pretty good when he wasn’t concussed, but that’s such a tricky injury we CANNOT bank on Little being the answer. I’m happy with him being a high potential backup to whoever we take at #7 but I don’t want Little as the planned starter.  Daley looked ok at times but I don’t want to be running the risk he’ll be starting numerous games.  The OL is the one group we gotta stop fuging around with and get it right for the first time since ‘08. 

[beo]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

The case against waiting to see what you have in Liitle is essentially this:

Doing so is literally gambling the health of your franchise Qb in a contract year with 3 years of injury history on Little both staying healthy and improving over “flashes”. The reason it isn’t poor asset management is that if he develops while playing at guard the coaching staff will know it.

You know what’s a truly awful awful problem to have as an NFL team? Having two guys on your line who can play LT well. God I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. I’d much rather we just run the risk of losing our franchise qb.

that's a good point, but i feel that maybe you could reserve that for day 2 or 3. i can definitely get the line of thinking but there are spots on this team where we have absolutely nothing, like at S, and then at LB it's just shaq with below average backups.  that can change with free agency though and if we sign another starting caliber LB and a starting caliber safety, then i'd be for thomas at tackle and little at guard.

 

3 minutes ago, stirs said:

Value

When you are as talent starved as the Panthers are at the moment, you want value with you pick.  If you are picking 7th and the 2nd or 4th ranked best player is there, you take him.  I doubt at this point than any OT will be valued there.  The value at our pick, given that there might be 3 QB's taken before us, could be Brown, Simmons, or Okudah.  If however we take a guy rated as the 10th best player, then we have failed at getting value for our pick.  Now, I'd give a ton of money to know the ratings from an NFL player the week before the draft, but all we have are the talking heads and we know they are off base quite a bit.

what if that 2nd or 4th ranked player is a position we dont need though? BPA is a good idea but you should still base the pick somewhat on need imo

[LinvilleGorge]

The only case I can make is that if all the OTs we grade as worthy of the pick are gone then no, we shouldn't reach just to draft an OT.

[beo]

4 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Little usually looked pretty good when he wasn’t concussed, but that’s such a tricky injury we CANNOT bank on Little being the answer. I’m happy with him being a high potential backup to whoever we take at #7 but I don’t want Little as the planned starter.  Daley looked ok at times but I don’t want to be running the risk he’ll be starting numerous games.  The OL is the one group we gotta stop fuging around with and get it right for the first time since ‘08. 

in my opinion it boils down to this: we have atleast something at tackle, while at some of our other needs we have absolutely nothing there. particularly LB. still, risking cam's health would be a really bad idea. maybe look at say a trey adams in round 2 or 3? i just think that with our current roster it would make more sense to go for simmons or a LB.

[countryboi]

A case for picking a tackle is the Colts..they picked a fuging guard and went from an one of the worse lines to one of the best.  none of these tackles are Quenton Nelson though

[Mr Mojo Risin]

You can never have enough good lineman on your team. Rarely and I mean rarely do you see a starting 5 unit start and finish the season as the same 5. Got to have good depth and Little could provide us with some solid depth once one of the guys goes down.

Bottom line is if Cam Newton is on the roster you do everything you can to make sure he has as good of an oline as possible. LT is probably our weakest point on offense. Draft Thomas and it suddenly becomes a strength.

[beo]

1 minute ago, countryboi said:

A case for picking a tackle is the Colts..they picked a fuging guard and went from an one of the worse lines to one of the best.  none of these tackles are Quenton Nelson though

quenton nelson was the most slam dunk pick ever and the fact that he fell to 6th was absolutely insane. i dont think andrew thomas is a quenton nelson, that dude made first team all-pro in his rookie year (and in 2019 as well)