Albert Breer: Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio could be hired after his contract runs out

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

That wasnt a bad move at the time. It was only a 2 year extension and the incentive money added to the 2017 contract was never earned.  So it a 2 year 17 million deal for a player who hadn't been hurt before, was talking about broadcasting and wanted some security to stay. There was no reason to think it was a going to be a problem. We only paid 2019 on the new contract and the dead money when  he split this year was only 3.4 million which didn't hurt the cap. Nope you can call it bad because he got injured again in 2018 but it wasn't a bad contract and didn't handicap us like a Matt Kalil contract and at least Olsen was a 3 time 1000 yard receiver in 2014-16. Hurney actually put in incentives that mitigated much damage.

It was a stupid contract and you can't spin it any other way.  Big man, coming off a foot injury with another year on his current deal.

He was already hinting toward the booth then.  If you aren't in 100%, you don't need to be out there.  There was zero reasons to extend him at that time, but Hurney did.  How many wins did he help us achieve since that extension, and is there any dead money related to his release on the books currently?  The answer is not many, and yes.

Where is the good move?

[panthers55]

Just now, thefuzz said:

It was a stupid contract and you can't spin it any other way.  Big man, coming off a foot injury with another year on his current deal.

He was already hinting toward the booth then.  If you aren't in 100%, you don't need to be out there.  There was zero reasons to extend him at that time, but Hurney did.  How many wins did he help us achieve since that extension, and is there any dead money related to his release on the books currently?  The answer is not many, and yes.

Where is the good move?

Sure I can say it was a decent contract. When you sign someone for a future contract you never know what is going to happen so you try to mitigate the risk and manage for contingencies. Olsen was talking about holding out or broadcasting so Hurney gave him incentives which were earned in 2017 which was smart. Then he gave him a 2 year deal with only 12 million guaranteed of which over half was guaranteed in 2018  when he only counted 8 million against the cap. So when 2019 rolled around the dead cap hit was only 7 million if we cut him last year.  Half for 2019 and the other for 2020. So given the injuries which were really unforseen, it actually protected the Panthers pretty well. That isn't spin that is reality. It wasn't as if Olsen had an injury history so given where we were at when the decision was made it was a good deal with protections. 

[panthers55]

Moving on. Hurney gets a 3rd and 7th rounder for Benjamin. Great move.

[thefuzz]

9 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Sure I can say it was a decent contract. When you sign someone for a future contract you never know what is going to happen so you try to mitigate the risk and manage for contingencies. Olsen was talking about holding out or broadcasting so Hurney gave him incentives which were earned in 2017 which was smart. Then he gave him a 2 year deal with only 12 million guaranteed of which over half was guaranteed in 2018  when he only counted 8 million against the cap. So when 2019 rolled around the dead cap hit was only 7 million if we cut him last year.  Half for 2019 and the other for 2020. So given the injuries which were really unforseen, it actually protected the Panthers pretty well. That isn't spin that is reality. It wasn't as if Olsen had an injury history so given where we were at when the decision was made it was a good deal with protections. 

ZERO reasons to extend him.  He was under contract.  If he wanted to go to the booth, see ya, have a great day, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Big man, over 30,  coming off foot injury, with a year to go on his current deal = Bad contract.  Called it then, calling it now.

Now, what's the next good thing Hurney has done?

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

Moving on. Hurney gets a 3rd and 7th rounder for Benjamin. Great move.

Hurney drafts Gaulden with the 3rd.

Next.

[panthers55]

Just now, thefuzz said:

Hurney drafts Gaulden with the 3rd.

Next.

So really then the whole issue with Gaulden being bad was house money since we got him and got rid of a problem and saved money. And we still got the 7th rounder as well. So once again a good move. As an aside, I don't think Gaulden was Hurney's choice either. He was talking going for speed and athleticism and Gaulden was neither. I wonder who was pushing hard for Gaulden given he didn't for the profile of the type of players we wanted.

[panthers55]

Next. Hurney and Rivera lobbied for Reid despite the protest issue and got a good player for cheap not only that year but the contract he signed was good given other contracts given out to safeties since. That is actually 2.

[thefuzz]

15 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

So really then the whole issue with Gaulden being bad was house money since we got him and got rid of a problem and saved money. And we still got the 7th rounder as well. So once again a good move. As an aside, I don't think Gaulden was Hurney's choice either. He was talking going for speed and athleticism and Gaulden was neither. I wonder who was pushing hard for Gaulden given he didn't for the profile of the type of players we wanted.

Hurney is responsible for the outcome of draft picks, Gaulden didn't belong on an NFL roster, and didn't make an impact.  What did get with the 7th?

Also, do you remember who Cam was throwing to in the playoff loss?  Think, even for a second that KB could have been better than those guys, especially since we got nothing in return?

[thefuzz]

14 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Next. Hurney and Rivera lobbied for Reid despite the protest issue and got a good player for cheap not only that year but the contract he signed was good given other contracts given out to safeties since. That is actually 2.

Cool, an in the box safety that can't cover, then doubled down and paid him when a rebuild was on the horizon....good vision.

Cut Butker and kept Gano, back to the beginning.

[panthers55]

46 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Cool, an in the box safety that can't cover, then doubled down and paid him when a rebuild was on the horizon....good vision.

Cut Butker and kept Gano, back to the beginning.

See this is what I mean. If you can't give him credit for anything he has done we can stop now. I thought you were open to at least discussion. You have argued with everything I have said which is what I knew you would do. A waste of time to continue given you aren't even open to discussion. But to your point. Gano had a probowl year in 2017 and was well worth the money given kickers are always cheap given they account for 1/3  (33%) of your points in a season and cost 2% of your cap. Great find in Butkur although he tried to stash on the practice squad and due to injury he was snatched by KC. But he didn't clear waivers. He liked Butkur and didn't want to let him go but had to due to injury elsewhere.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

See this is what I mean. If you can't give him credit for anything he has done we can stop now. I thought you were open to at least discussion. You have argued with everything I have said which is what I knew you would do. A waste of time to continue given you aren't even open to discussion. But to your point. Gano had a probowl year in 2017 and was well worth the money given kickers are always cheap given they account for 1/3  (33%) of your points in a season and cost 2% of your cap. Great find in Butkur although he tried to stash on the practice squad and due to injury he was snatched by KC. It wasnt a bad move at all. 

I'm giving you my point of view.  I agree that signing Reid off the street was a good move, extending him was not....IMO.

Gano never will be a good move.  He is still counting against the cap and finished the year on IR.  He was older, more expensive, and had a shorter contract than Butker, but we kept him anyway....over the younger, cheaper, and now more healthy option.

As to it being a great find, that was DG not Hurney.

Extending TD.

Next.

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I'm giving you my point of view.  I agree that signing Reid off the street was a good move, extending him was not....IMO.

Gano never will be a good move.  He is still counting against the cap and finished the year on IR.  He was older, more expensive, and had a shorter contract than Butker, but we kept him anyway....over the younger, cheaper, and now more healthy option.

As to it being a great find, that was DG not Hurney.

Extending TD.

Next.

Again Gamo had a probowl year, Butkur has not. And contracts for kickers are cheap. At the time Butkur was unknown and a risk. But we tried to keep him. Nope can't agree it was bad then. As for 2020 we can cut Gano this year with a dead cap hit of 3 million. 

TD extension when?  In 2017 when he made the probowl and even with restructuring bonuses and signing bonus was a cap hit of only 10 million. In 2018 it was down to right at 3 million so a 2 year deal for 13 million for the heart and soul of our defense who we surely missed. His contract with the Chargers was 10.5 for a player 2 years older. That shows Hurney's deal was right in line.  You need to actually show a bad move. So far you are reinforcing my view that he has done very well since he came back.

[thefuzz]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Again Gamo had a probowl year, Butkur has not. And contracts for kickers are cheap. At the time Butkur was unknown and a risk. But we tried to keep him. Nope can't agree it was bad then. As for 2020 we can cut Gano this year with a dead cap hit of 3 million. 

TD extension when?  In 2017 when he made the probowl and even with restructuring bonuses and signing bonus was a cap hit of only 10 million. In 2018 it was down to right at 3 million so a 2 year deal for 13 million for the heart and soul of our defense who we surely missed. His contract with the Chargers was 10.5 for a player 2 years older. That shows Hurney's deal was right in line.  You need to actually show a bad move. So far you are reinforcing my view that he has done very well since he came back.

The moves I have brought up were clearly bad for the future of the franchise, yet you continue to sit there and say that "at the time" they were good.

TD didn't help us get to the playoffs, Olsen didn't help us get to the playoffs, Gano didn't help us get to the playoffs.  TD should have been let walk without tying up more money in him, we had Shaq just sitting there (another mistake compounded by Marty paying a LB right before a rebuild), Olsen should have been told to play out his deal, stay healthy, and there will be more money for you in the future,  and Gano should have been told to walk the plank and we wouldn't have spent 17M on a kicker over the past 4 years when it would have cost us only 3M to keep Butker.

You also gonna say that restructuring KK and Trai's deals was a good idea as well?

Brining in Paridis?

Bringing back Daryl?

Good lord man, this team is in shambles, we are doing a full rebuild and you are praising the guy that led us down this path.

Maybe you don't care about the team and care more about having players out there who you can remember their names?  I care about winning, and as long as Marty has been in charge here, we ain't been doing a lot of that.

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, thefuzz said:

The moves I have brought up were clearly bad for the future of the franchise, yet you continue to sit there and say that "at the time" they were good.

TD didn't help us get to the playoffs, Olsen didn't help us get to the playoffs, Gano didn't help us get to the playoffs.  TD should have been let walk without tying up more money in him, we had Shaq just sitting there (another mistake compounded by Marty paying a LB right before a rebuild), Olsen should have been told to play out his deal, stay healthy, and there will be more money for you in the future,  and Gano should have been told to walk the plank and we wouldn't have spent 17M on a kicker over the past 4 years when it would have cost us only 3M to keep Butker.

You also gonna say that restructuring KK and Trai's deals was a good idea as well?

Brining in Paridis?

Bringing back Daryl?

Good lord man, this team is in shambles, we are doing a full rebuild and you are praising the guy that led us down this path.

Maybe you don't care about the team and care more about having players out there who you can remember their names?  I care about winning, and as long as Marty has been in charge here, we ain't been doing a lot of that.

Back to where we started. Hurney has done nothing right and Tepper is an idiot for retaining him. I knew this would go nowhere and be a waste of time. Totally predictable and appreciate the effort. Must be tough to hear that he is so respected around the league and you know the truth which is he is terrible.

Thanks for playing .. LOL