Jerry Jeudy @ 7

[(ATL'ien)CamNewton]

1 minute ago, Madwolf said:

There are 2 starting caliber LTs in FA. One is 32 and the other is 38.

Feel free to demonstrate how we can afford to sign either.

We could sign Jack Conklin to solidify RT and throw Little, Moton, Daley at LT and hope one of them sticks.

[1of10Charnatives]

16 minutes ago, (ATL'ien)CamNewton said:

We could sign Jack Conklin to solidify RT and throw Little, Moton, Daley at LT and hope one of them sticks.

Yeah, I like this idea. Let's throw 3 maybe's, 2 of them coming off injury shortened rookie seasons, into the most critical position for protecting the 30 year old 2 year injured qb on which your entire plan depends and hope that works.

What's the worst that could happen?

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

Probably.

 

 

 

 

I mean it's not like we've tried similar foolishness and wishful thinking before and it didn't work out, right?  Last year was completely different from this, right?

[(ATL'ien)CamNewton]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Yeah, I like this idea. Let's throw 3 maybe's, 2 of them coming off injury shortened rookie seasons, into the most critical position for protecting the 30 year old 2 year injured qb on which your entire plan depends and hope that works.

What's the worst that could happen?

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

Probably.

 

 

 

 

I mean it's not like we've tried similar foolishness and wishful thinking before and it didn't work out, right?  Last year was completely different from this, right?

The NFL is a game of surprises.

You think this player is going to definitely be a stud this season. No, that player sucks. The player you weren't even thinking of contributing turns into a Pro-Bowler. The player you thought for sure would be solid, complete sucks it up. Season after season this happens.

I think, first of all, Paradis is going to be a stud again. I think Greg Little will be a serviceable starting LT this season. Turner is fine .. Moton is fine. Daley has promise.

It's not all poo when it comes to this team. We're prisoners of the moment. It's never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems. Right now people are in the gutter and there is reason for that .. but at the same time there is reason for great optimism too.

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, (ATL'ien)CamNewton said:

The NFL is a game of surprises.

You think this player is going to definitely be a stud this season. No, that player sucks. The player you weren't even thinking of contributing turns into a Pro-Bowler. The player you thought for sure would be solid, complete sucks it up. Season after season this happens.

I think, first of all, Paradis is going to be a stud again. I think Greg Little will be a serviceable starting LT this season. Turner is fine .. Moton is fine. Daley has promise.

It's not all poo when it comes to this team. We're prisoners of the moment. It's never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems. Right now people are in the gutter and there is reason for that .. but at the same time there is reason for great optimism too.

okay, but do you want to pin Cam's health and future with the team (based on Tepper's comments I think it's a reasonable assumption that if Cam does not play 16 next season and play well, he's gone) on being optimistic about things that did not look good in the past and that you have no real basis for expecting to be better other than "optimism" or do you want to do everything in your power to make sure the qb who's future with the team rides on the coming season has all the protection he can get? This is an extremely deep WR class, so WR help can be had in later rounds that might not be your darling Jeudy, but overall will be a better total upgrade than if we take Jeudy in the first and stretch for some guy in later rounds at tackle.

You keep saying a quick strike offense will make the oline not matter but c'mon dude, if that was really the case then no one would bother to invest draft capitol or cap space in o linemen, they'd just go get stud receivers their qb could throw to really quick and be all good. That approach works for a limited amount of time against NFL defenses, who will evolve and react to take away the quick pass and make you throw deep. It's what they did to Allen last year and when we didn't have an oline that could keep the rush off him and he couldn't connect deep, look what happened.

This is just not a realistic approach to addressing our needs on offense imo.

[Madwolf]

Using poor man LTs and converted RTs has worked out so well the last 8 years. Surely this year will be different, and they'll turn into studs. 

[1of10Charnatives]

7 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

Using poor man LTs and converted RTs has worked out so well the last 8 years. Surely this year will be different, and they'll turn into studs. 

Ed Zachary.

[(ATL'ien)CamNewton]

3 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

okay, but do you want to pin Cam's health and future with the team (based on Tepper's comments I think it's a reasonable assumption that if Cam does not play 16 next season and play well, he's gone) on being optimistic about things that did not look good in the past and that you have no real basis for expecting to be better other than "optimism" or do you want to do everything in your power to make sure the qb who's future with the team rides on the coming season has all the protection he can get? This is an extremely deep WR class, so WR help can be had in later rounds that might not be your darling Jeudy, but overall will be a better total upgrade than if we take Jeudy in the first and stretch for some guy in later rounds at tackle.

You keep saying a quick strike offense will make the oline not matter but c'mon dude, if that was really the case then no one would bother to invest draft capitol or cap space in o linemen, they'd just go get stud receivers their qb could throw to really quick and be all good. That approach works for a limited amount of time against NFL defenses, who will evolve and react to take away the quick pass and make you throw deep. It's what they did to Allen last year and when we didn't have an oline that could keep the rush off him and he couldn't connect deep, look what happened.

This is just not a realistic approach to addressing our needs on offense imo.

If we think we can draft D'Brickashaw Ferguson at pick 7 .. I'm all for it.

How many Tackle prospects end up like Ferguson though. Ferguson did not miss a start at LT for the Jets in 10 seasons. He was taken 4th OVR though.

I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see what we do in FA.

I think the difference between Jeudy and the other WR's in this draft is that, while 3rd and 4th round WR's in this draft may develop into very good NFL WR's .. I think Jeudy can be a very good NFL WR on Day 1

[DeAngelo Beason]

46 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

There are 2 starting caliber LTs in FA. One is 32 and the other is 38.

Feel free to demonstrate how we can afford to sign either.

We just saved $12 million by releasing Olsen and Kuechly retiring

We could save another almost $10 million by releasing Dontari Poe (most everyone here hates him so why not?)

$3 million if we moved on from Jarius Wright... wouldn't need him since we'd be drafting Jeudy in this scenario.

 

We aren't in superb cap shape, but I think we are good enough to go get a star player.

[Madwolf]

Just now, DeAngelo Beason said:

We just saved $12 million by releasing Olsen and Kuechly retiring

We could save another almost $10 million by releasing Dontari Poe (most everyone here hates him so why not?)

$3 million if we moved on from Jarius Wright... wouldn't need him since we'd be drafting Jeudy in this scenario.

 

We aren't in superb cap shape, but I think we are good enough to go get a star player.

Except that both players are over 30, and paying them at this point in their careers is a disaster waiting to happen.

[(ATL'ien)CamNewton]

2 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

We just saved $12 million by releasing Olsen and Kuechly retiring

We could save another almost $10 million by releasing Dontari Poe (most everyone here hates him so why not?)

$3 million if we moved on from Jarius Wright... wouldn't need him since we'd be drafting Jeudy in this scenario.

 

We aren't in superb cap shape, but I think we are good enough to go get a star player.

Agreed. Jack Conklin would be a huge get. He'll cost but he's worth it.

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, (ATL'ien)CamNewton said:

If we think we can draft D'Brickashaw Ferguson at pick 7 .. I'm all for it.

How many Tackle prospects end up like Ferguson though. Ferguson did not miss a start at LT for the Jets in 10 seasons. He was taken 4th OVR though.

I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see what we do in FA.

I think the difference between Jeudy and the other WR's in this draft is that, while 3rd and 4th round WR's in this draft may develop into very good NFL WR's .. I think Jeudy can be a very good NFL WR on Day 1

That's fair, but where I'm coming from is I think the present situation on the ground mandates that fixing our OL is by a wide margin the most urgent issue this team has. The D line is also a mess, but waiting to fix the D line does not carry with it near the implications leaving the o line to a hope and a prayer does. I think if there's a tackle at 7 that you think is a meaningful upgrade over guys on the roster, you almost have to take them, because the consequence of failing to sufficiently protect Cam is the very real possibility of losing him.

Jeudy may well be NFL ready day one, I won't even dispute that, and if we were in a less precarious position I would be more of a BPA guy and if that's Jeudy go for it. It's just that after watching Cam get beat up and left unprotected by the league's stooges, err refs the last few years, I'm loathe to risk his health and his career with us beyond this season if there's anything I can do to prevent it.

The nightmare scenario is this: We take Jeudy or some other great athlete at another position at 7 and hope that Little et al pan out. For a while they do, because we play the style you're talking about that Brady will no doubt install, quick reads and fast passes, and Cam looks amazing and Little seems sufficient. But as we get into midseason, NFL defenses, seeing what Brady is doing, begin to scheme to take away the short pass, daring a qb coming off injury with an unproven deep threat (samuel) to beat them over the top. This leads to Cam holding the ball, and now Little can't hold up that long and Cam gets hurt. 

At that point Tepper will let him walk because the guy couldn't stay healthy 4 years in a row and is on the wrong side of the 30, and we all get stuck wondering what might have been while Jeudy, Moore and CMC wonder who's gonna be throwing them the ball.

[DeAngelo Beason]

6 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

Except that both players are over 30, and paying them at this point in their careers is a disaster waiting to happen.

I disagree.  32 is not that old for most linemen.  That's the prime of many linemen's careers, in fact.

[Madwolf]

Just now, DeAngelo Beason said:

I disagree.  32 is not that old for most linemen.  That's the prime of many linemen's careers, in fact.

28-30 is about where they peak. 32 is where they generally decline. Signing a guy as a FA at 32 is a risk at OT, especially when you can get a rookie for a fraction of the cost.

[DeAngelo Beason]

39 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

28-30 is about where they peak. 32 is where they generally decline. Signing a guy as a FA at 32 is a risk at OT, especially when you can get a rookie for a fraction of the cost.

Any data available to back that up?  Something like 7 or 8 guys over the age of 30 went to the pro bowl this year.

Believe that number was closer to 12 or so in 2018.

Signing anyone is a risk.  A good o-linemen stays good into his mid 30s.   I'm certainly not advocating for selling the farm to bring in an OT, but if we have the money and it's a position of great need, why not bring in a stopgap guy on a prove it deal?