Both our lines are awful. Why we need to fix the o line first.

[Matt62881]

Some of yall act like the only problem on Oline we got is LT. I don't want Paradis making our line calls and letting the pocket go next year, imo that was a even greater problem and made me miss Ryan big time.

[KillerKat]

Just now, Matt62881 said:

Some of yall act like the only problem on Oline we got is LT. I don't want Paradis making our line calls and letting the pocket go next year, imo that was a even greater problem and made me miss Ryan big time.

Yeah LT needs to be fixed. Same for LG, C, and RG. Only one that is pretty good is Moton at RT. If the cap hit isn't too big, I have no idea the numbers, I'd put Turner on the trade block. He's been crap for the past 2 years.

[pantherj]

15 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

I'm seeing Leki all over the place....do you think he lasts till our 3rd pick? If we could land D. Bown at 1, Bpa Center with our 2nd, and Leki with our 3rd I think it fixes our d along with depth and goes a long way in helping our oline. I can see Luke and Shaq flying around while Burns tears the qb up and the secondary robs opposing qbs.

Well Leki plays a little too high and needs to learn to play lower to get better leverage. Also Leki's running is not good but at 320 pounds whose would be. Leki doesn't have a bunch of moves or anything sophisticated, he's just pure lean power. He can anchor down and use his long tree trunk arms to disengage and grab the RB and it's over. He's not going to rush the passer all that well, but I don't see how 3-4 teams will just let him slide through the 2nd round.

I don't know that he is a great fit for us with a 4-3 unless it's an early running down, but I am so desperate to to stop the run that I'd like to have that monster out there. 

[Matt62881]

8 minutes ago, KillerKat said:

Yeah LT needs to be fixed. Same for LG, C, and RG. Only one that is pretty good is Moton at RT. If the cap hit isn't too big, I have no idea the numbers, I'd put Turner on the trade block. He's been crap for the past 2 years.

Yea...Turner is a tough situation because when he was good he was one hell of a run blocker. Some of his issues could be coming from the center and he did just make the pro bowl, somehow. If you could get a 2nd for Turner that might be good but it would be one less Vet on the line. I agree with you tho, no one but Moten has been good enough but no olineman really plays good in their first year from what I've seen so that leaves the possibility of little and Daleys play increasing through experience and a NFL weight room.

[Matt62881]

5 minutes ago, pantherj said:

Well Leki plays a little too high and needs to learn to play lower to get better leverage. Also Leki's running is not good but at 320 pounds whose would be. Leki doesn't have a bunch of moves or anything sophisticated, he's just pure lean power. He can anchor down and use his long tree trunk arms to disengage and grab the RB and it's over. He's not going to rush the passer all that well, but I don't see how 3-4 teams will just let him slide through the 2nd round.

I don't know that he is a great fit for us with a 4-3 unless it's an early running down, but I am so desperate to to stop the run that I'd like to have that monster out there. 

Thanks, this is some of the info I was looking for, it honestly would work out if he had a few flaws and somehow made it to our third because I dont see many guys like him in the draft that aren't gonna definitely go higher. He immediately helps our run D on early downs and is great depth that could develop into more. I want our run D in the top 5 and Brown, KK, and Leki together freeing up our lbs does that imo.

[Cpt slay a ho]

6 hours ago, stbugs said:

Damn, I need to smoke what your smoking. Our DL is abysmal right now. McCoy and Irvin aren’t coming back. Who knows if Butler will resign. Short and Poe are coming off season ending injuries and Short isn’t getting younger. Short and Poe are also a huge salary cap albatrosses.

We signed Irvin and McCoy in the off-season and we still finished 31st in D. We aren’t in good shape unless Rhule is a miracle worker. At this point we better hope he is or we better hope that our triumvirate knows we need to completely rebuild or we’ll never get anywhere but middle of the road.

Smoke it, it’s call reality lol, Poe is gone use that money and grab a guy like suh.

Irvin and McCoy can both be retained if we wanted, not sure Irvin wants to be here if we happen to switch back to 4-3 however. 

Im still not opposed to brown at 7 but I think majority the struggles were because of scheme not performance, run defense was good until the team got exposed against the 49ers.

not as bad as it seems the worst part is being on the hook for shorts contract another year 

 

[beastson]

Our first 3 picks should be OL. 

[Basbear]

Big reason Im waiting for Rhule and his staff, is whom is getting the HUGE task of fixing the OL and DL. Cause no rookies or FAs will save this years team.

Lastly Ive been trying to state DE/OLB/edge is just as big need as any on OL or DL. Just a young burns and that it. Spending drafting capital or cap space their is a must.

  

 

[Jon Snow]

You guys are arguing which one is the stinkiest turd.  I've got news for you they both stink.  It doesn't matter which one they draft because the need help at both.

[ImaginaryKev]

Kind of agree that offensive line is an issue but also think we have to be realistic about expectations on how the team will fix it. Hurney is still there and they invested in Little with a high pick, he's going to get chances to play.

LG seems like the spot in need of a free agent upgrade, bc GVR is a free agent and coming off of injury. I think we'd be happy with a solid guy inserted there.

Because they just signed him I'm thinking Paradis is going to be given another shot too, so I wouldn't get my hopes up we just draft his replacement this year. His situation isn't the same as Justin Hartwig back in the day, Hartwig was injured AND trash. He was still trash the next year in Pitt too. 

If we upgrade at LG I still fully support drafting a versatile lineman early. Was bummed that OG from Tennessee went back to school bc he's gonna be a first rounder next year

I don't know what to make of Trai Turner. I could see his play being a result of not being good anymore OR trying to make up for other players or bad scheme or whatever. Still seems like a stretch he'd be cut since his contract. So i expect him back. 

[1of10Charnatives]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Why would any of those guys want to resign with us? It wasn't just scheme. Scheme hurts, we got gashed horrifically to the point of being the worst defense in the league. Our offense (ignoring Grier) even with Kyle Allen never got to the point of as bad as the defense. I want to rebuild the OL, but fixing the OL and ignoring the DL could put us in even worse shape than last year.

Think about this. We were the worst team against the run and the 2nd worst scoring D in the NFL (worst after week 1) and we may lose Butler, Bradberry, Cockrell, Irvin, McCoy and Addison. We could lose Short and/or Poe for cap reasons since they count for $30M in 2020. On the OL, the only potential loss is Van Roten and Williams. With one draft pick we could take care of Van Roten and Williams is just a terrible backup.

Our DL is very close to being decimated if we can't retain some FAs and our DL was awful last year. I know OL needs work, but damn is our DL in bad shape. God, I hope Brown falls to us.

Think about this, and by the way this is kind of the whole point of the OP:

If our run defense next year is even worse than this year, the consequences of that are confined to next year. If our O line isn't fixed, the consequences in the form of health/development of whoever is our qb could quite easily stretch beyond next year.  Very few people are looking at this as one year, we'll be back in the playoffs next year situation, so that being the case, why does it actually matter long term if the run D is awful next year? Are you expecting us to be competitive next year?

Neglecting the D line worst case scenario is a truly putrid run D puts us that much closer to Trevor Lawrence. 

Neglecting the O line worst case scenario: Cam or our 1st round franchise rookie qb get killed next year behind a truly awful line, impacting what we can expect to get from the qb position for years. But no worry, at least qb doesn't matter much to your success.

[PantherCam213]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Think about this, and by the way this is kind of the whole point of the OP:

If our run defense next year is even worse than this year, the consequences of that are confined to next year. If our O line isn't fixed, the consequences in the form of health/development of whoever is our qb could quite easily stretch beyond next year.  Very few people are looking at this as one year, we'll be back in the playoffs next year situation, so that being the case, why does it actually matter long term if the run D is awful next year? Are you expecting us to be competitive next year?

Neglecting the D line worst case scenario is a truly putrid run D puts us that much closer to Trevor Lawrence. 

Neglecting the O line worst case scenario: Cam or our 1st round franchise rookie qb get killed next year behind a truly awful line, impacting what we can expect to get from the qb position for years. But no worry, at least qb doesn't matter much to your success.

Wish I could pie this twice!

[Cpt slay a ho]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Why would any of those guys want to resign with us? It wasn't just scheme. Scheme hurts, we got gashed horrifically to the point of being the worst defense in the league. Our offense (ignoring Grier) even with Kyle Allen never got to the point of as bad as the defense. I want to rebuild the OL, but fixing the OL and ignoring the DL could put us in even worse shape than last year.

Think about this. We were the worst team against the run and the 2nd worst scoring D in the NFL (worst after week 1) and we may lose Butler, Bradberry, Cockrell, Irvin, McCoy and Addison. We could lose Short and/or Poe for cap reasons since they count for $30M in 2020. On the OL, the only potential loss is Van Roten and Williams. With one draft pick we could take care of Van Roten and Williams is just a terrible backup.

Our DL is very close to being decimated if we can't retain some FAs and our DL was awful last year. I know OL needs work, but damn is our DL in bad shape. God, I hope Brown falls to us.

Why wouldn’t they want to? McCoy came here for things beyond money.
 

The offense on numerous occasion was as worst or worst than the defense at times with Kyle, 49ers, Atlanta, jaguars are a couple that come to mind. 

I haven’t seen one person say let’s ignored the dL, we’d rather not invest a 1st rounder at the position if there are guys like Thomas, okudah, or jeudy at 7. The 2nd round will have dts or whatever else holes we’d need to fill after free agency. Dt that specify in run stuffing or eat up blocks can be had via fa imo.

Bradberry can be tagged, so he’s not going anywhere unless we want to cut bait, McCoy can be retain if we express interest, just like Irvin imo, and of course Addison can be retained. Again depends on what scheme we will be running, Tampa fielded the top running defense and ran a 4-3, I think making that switch back to 4-3 will go a long way. The defense has played horrible with Eric Washington calling plays, no coincidence when Ron called plays the defense played to its ability  

[1of10Charnatives]

54 minutes ago, ImaginaryKev said:

Kind of agree that offensive line is an issue but also think we have to be realistic about expectations on how the team will fix it. Hurney is still there and they invested in Little with a high pick, he's going to get chances to play.

LG seems like the spot in need of a free agent upgrade, bc GVR is a free agent and coming off of injury. I think we'd be happy with a solid guy inserted there.

Because they just signed him I'm thinking Paradis is going to be given another shot too, so I wouldn't get my hopes up we just draft his replacement this year. His situation isn't the same as Justin Hartwig back in the day, Hartwig was injured AND trash. He was still trash the next year in Pitt too. 

If we upgrade at LG I still fully support drafting a versatile lineman early. Was bummed that OG from Tennessee went back to school bc he's gonna be a first rounder next year

I don't know what to make of Trai Turner. I could see his play being a result of not being good anymore OR trying to make up for other players or bad scheme or whatever. Still seems like a stretch he'd be cut since his contract. So i expect him back. 

I could see drafting a center in say 2nd or 3rd that plays guard for a year while we wait for Paradis's cap hit to come down. I'm kinda resigned to the notion we're sorta stuck with him next year, but I think there are enough holes elsewhere like LG that we might as well fix those first.