Both our lines are awful. Why we need to fix the o line first.

[pantherj]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

It is amazing to me how little people understand about football. See this stat line:

2296 yards and 31 TDs 

That was our rushing defense. As bad as our OL was, we still finished #20 in scoring offense and CMC had an amazing year. It would have been #16 scoring if not for the Grier experiment to ensure a good draft pick, of which I was in favor.

Our defense was #31 and from week 2 to week 17 we were #32. Throw in the second half of last year and we are basically giving up 30ppg.

Our 2015 year would have been 2019 Tampa Bay if our 2015 D gave up the same amount of points as this D.

If Brown is available at 7, he’s absolutely a consideration and probably the best choice. We need to fix both lines and honestly, we’ve got a better chance of it with Brown and a LG and C at 38 and 69 than Thomas and a DT and LG at 38 and 69. C/G talent drops, at 38, you are likely getting a top 2 G or C like last year when McCoy, Jenkins and Risner were all available after 38. You aren’t getting that level of DT at 38.

I’ve never been a fan of Little, but I also have to hope he and/or Daley can improve to just be good enough that a 2nd round LG can make them even better.

 You cite stats about our defense and make no mention of the rash of d-line injuries. Not good.

You place hope in Little or Daley and hope a LG will help. Not good.

DT Leki Fotu would be nice at 38.

The priority with the top pick with be OT imo assuming the value is there. You can think whatever you want.

[Khyber53]

Games are won and lost in the trenches.

Switching back to a 4-3 and the return of some injured vets can fix the D for the time being, especially with a few mid-tier free agents.

That O-line, though needs a Center and Right Guard immediately, probably a left guard and potentially a Left Tackle. I'm not sure that Daley and Little aren't capable of handling the position -- that's a tough spot to start out as a rookie in, especially when most of the rest of the line was on roller skates or IR. 

I want to see us draft a center and jettison Paradis. It will kill our cap space but he's killing that line, as is Trai (or TraiNot) Turner. Moton is doing what he can (and did okay up until the regime change) and GVR is at least working at it. Williams should be allowed to hit the market, hit the bricks and hit the hay as far as I am concerned.

Center and guard in the draft, and make sure to get TE help for the LT.

[pantherj]

15 minutes ago, stbugs said:

How else can I convey the DL’s ineptitude without citing stats? Is there a better way to say that we have the worst D in the NFL over the past year and a half? We lost Short for the year. We signed McCoy, seems even to me. Poe played 11 games and we already sucked. Everyone was healthy for the second half of last year. There are no injury excuses. I laugh when people point to Poe’s injury when he played 27 of 32 games the past two years. He only missed 3 games where we were trying to win.

Also, I said I am hopeful. I also said I’m not dumb and I hated the Little pick. If Brown is there, I’m taking him. If not, I hope Thomas is there. I recognize the OL issue, but you guys are covering your eyes to ignore the worst part of our team right now.

We saw how Paradis and Williams played after serious injuries cut down their 2018 years and yet people think Poe and Short are going to magically play awesome in a new scheme after their season ending injuries? How about cap space? We have Poe and Short counting as $30M in cap space and everyone seems to think we are going to get rid of one this year and one the next but we don’t need a DT?

You know I'm not saying we don't need a DT because I just suggested drafting one in the 2rd round and gave his name as well. He is Poe's replacement in my plan. We are stuck with KK.

In general fans want to prioritize fixing the o-line over the d-line for obvious (protect Cam ect) reasons. I don't think fans overall are wanting to ignore the DT position.

We can't really fix everything to everyone's satisfaction when you have a dumpster fire. You address the biggest problems and also pour some water on the less important fires as well. EVERYONE with eyes saw MASSIVE lanes open in our d-line and huge gashes that would allow a convoy of trucks through. Everyone saw Luke eat poo to the point where Tepper had to meet with him privately. No one wants another season of that, but we have to protect Cam otherwise it doesn't matter if our run defense is good.

Hurt Cam, good run defense = we eat poo all season.

Hurt Cam, good run defense = we eat poo all season.

Hurt Cam, good run defense = we eat poo all season.

Say that over and over again.

[Toomers]

9 minutes ago, pantherj said:

You know I'm not saying we don't need a DT because I just suggested drafting one in the 2rd round and gave his name as well. He is Poe's replacement in my plan. We are stuck with KK.

In general fans want to prioritize fixing the o-line over the d-line for obvious (protect Cam ect) reasons. I don't think fans overall are wanting to ignore the DT position.

We can't really fix everything to everyone's satisfaction when you have a dumpster fire. You address the biggest problems and also pour some water on the less important fires as well. EVERYONE with eyes saw MASSIVE lanes open in our d-line and huge gashes that would allow a convoy of trucks through. Everyone saw Luke eat poo to the point where Tepper had to meet with him privately. No one wants another season of that, but we have to protect Cam otherwise it doesn't matter if run defense is good.

Hurt Cam, good run defense = we eat poo all season.

Hurt Cam, good run defense = we eat poo all season.

Hurt Cam, good run defense = we eat poo all season.

Say that over and over again.

  You fix what you can with the opportunities you’re given. It’s a two-player 1st round. If Thomas or Brown fall to 7, run to the podium. If both do(doubtful) then it’s a choice. 
 

     I panned the Little pick more than anyone. But at least he provides some hope of an option at LT. The only DL we have around are cap anchors. No backups and 1 starter for 3 DL positions.

  And between the two, without regards to position, Brown is a sure a thing as I’ve seen in 45 years to succeed. Thomas is very good but is still a risk(like most LT prospect)

[raleigh-panther]

Shared previously as justification for LT at 7

58 sacks, most in the league and that doesn’t include hurries and knockdowns  historically bad 

[Toomers]

45 minutes ago, stbugs said:

You are absolutely wrong about SB winners and OLs. Denver’s OL wasn’t good. We absolutely smashed their OL. Russell Wilson’s OLs have been suspect and Brady’s OLs have often been hodge podges of guys. Great QBs make OLs better and great coaches make OLs better.

Remmers did great against Miller in week 1 of 2016 and Collinsworth even spent a segment showing how we were blocking/play calling to negate him in the first half and we were up 17-7 at half (Benjamin was 6-91 1TD that day and while I can’t stand him now, we needed him in the SB). Then we went back to deep ass drops and scored 3 more points.

Look at Dallas. Best OL of the past decade and 1 playoff win. The core (Cannon, Thuney and Mason) of NEs OL the past 4-5 plus years is a 3rd, 4th and 5th rounder. They’ve spent 3 first round picks on OL the past 20 Belichick years. One at pick 17, one at 32 and one at 23 and one of them has only played a handful of games for them, i.e. hasn’t really contributed to any of there success. They mainly draft D in the first.

2008 Steelers OL was awful. Ben had to talk crap about them at the podium right after game. Something like “who’s the worst OL now?”

[raleigh-panther]

Bottom line in the NFL, if a team doesn’t have a QB, a QB that has a chance of standing upright, it has zero, nada, nothing 

a defense can be average to below average and still win, but in the new nfl in which the rules favor the offense, a team has to be able to score

Short comes back, pick up a  mid tier DT or two and live with it

but at all costs this year fix that oline  

 

[Raskle]

2 hours ago, pantherj said:

 You cite stats about our defense and make no mention of the rash of d-line injuries. Not good.

You place hope in Little or Daley and hope a LG will help. Not good.

DT Leki Fotu would be nice at 38.

The priority with the top pick with be OT imo assuming the value is there. You can think whatever you want.

Fotu is projecting 3rd round right now, according to a few sites, but we all know that changes the closer we get to the combine. At the moment, I'd absolutely LOVE this latest mock draft I did on https://thedraftnetwork.com/mock-drafts. Fixes the lines immensely, helps steady our safety spot, nabs a WR that Coach Rhule is familiar with, and gives us an interesting pass-catching TE prospect to develop. The only thing I felt could still use an upgrade was the CB spot, but the chips didn't fall that way for me, and we can always snag someone in FA if need be.

[BigSyke]

3 hours ago, stbugs said:

You are absolutely wrong about SB winners and OLs. Denver’s OL wasn’t good. We absolutely smashed their OL. Russell Wilson’s OLs have been suspect and Brady’s OLs have often been hodge podges of guys. Great QBs make OLs better and great coaches make OLs better.

Remmers did great against Miller in week 1 of 2016 and Collinsworth even spent a segment showing how we were blocking/play calling to negate him in the first half and we were up 17-7 at half (Benjamin was 6-91 1TD that day and while I can’t stand him now, we needed him in the SB). Then we went back to deep ass drops and scored 3 more points.

Look at Dallas. Best OL of the past decade and 1 playoff win. The core (Cannon, Thuney and Mason) of NEs OL the past 4-5 plus years is a 3rd, 4th and 5th rounder. They’ve spent 3 first round picks on OL the past 20 Belichick years. One at pick 17, one at 32 and one at 23 and one of them has only played a handful of games for them, i.e. hasn’t really contributed to any of there success. They mainly draft D in the first.

 

1.From what I remember an out of prime Peyton Mannning had to much time and had drives that should have been stopped earlier.

I still say that defense should have not allowed ANY tds to that terrible offense. I mean manninig was benched for Orton/Osweiler or some random bum that year.

I thought they were going repeat what they did to Carson Palmer. Still cant believe it. 

 

2.Wilson has had terrible oline but he is an elite scrambler. Brady  always has great olines for the most part. Dude just sucked this year and was carried by the defense.

 

 

[AU-panther]

18 hours ago, pantherj said:

There is no valid argument for spending our top premier pick on a fuging DT or CB. The only options for the top pick are QB, OT, WR. QB if we're done with Cam. OT if the value is there. WR if there is great value and low value at OT. The hope every Panthers fan should have is that there is good value at the OT position when we pick 7th. There are good DTs available in the 2nd round that can help slow the run. Frankly I don't give a fug if we have leaky run defense next season given the RED ALERT situation with pass protection.

We have 3 above average CBs on the team?

 

[pantherj]

32 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

We have 3 above average CBs on the team?

 

Assuming we sign Bradberry that would give us one. We might pick up a zone CB to pair with Bradberry and move Jackson to the slot.

[pantherj]

2 hours ago, Raskle said:

Fotu is projecting 3rd round right now, according to a few sites, but we all know that changes the closer we get to the combine. At the moment, I'd absolutely LOVE this latest mock draft I did on https://thedraftnetwork.com/mock-drafts. Fixes the lines immensely, helps steady our safety spot, nabs a WR that Coach Rhule is familiar with, and gives us an interesting pass-catching TE prospect to develop. The only thing I felt could still use an upgrade was the CB spot, but the chips didn't fall that way for me, and we can always snag someone in FA if need be.

Fotu in the 3rd would feel like a steal to me. He's gigantic but long and very lean for his size.

[KillerKat]

DL has had its turn for too long. Time to make OL the top priority.

[Matt62881]

5 hours ago, pantherj said:

 You cite stats about our defense and make no mention of the rash of d-line injuries. Not good.

You place hope in Little or Daley and hope a LG will help. Not good.

DT Leki Fotu would be nice at 38.

The priority with the top pick with be OT imo assuming the value is there. You can think whatever you want.

I'm seeing Leki all over the place....do you think he lasts till our 3rd pick? If we could land D. Bown at 1, Bpa Center with our 2nd, and Leki with our 3rd I think it fixes our d along with depth and goes a long way in helping our oline. I can see Luke and Shaq flying around while Burns tears the qb up and the secondary robs opposing qbs.