David Tepper: "Sometimes you have to tear things down to build them up"

[mav1234]

40 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

there’s an elephant in the room here: cam is significantly more valuable. luke doesn’t really move the needle. he’s a great complimentary piece but his value is limited by his position. it would have been much easier to shove luke out the door after his injuries, but that wasn’t ever really part of the discussion. if luke’s contract status is supposed to factor in then their actual values should be considered as well. can’t compare the two there.  it’s no contest.

also cam wasn’t afforded opportunities to heal up and finish the season healthy so, using your words, his situation is not similar to luke’s. luke was treated with kid gloves. the coaches knew who they could win without and who they couldn’t. so kuechly gets to recover from injuries while cam’s injuries linger. and of course cam is the one who gets labeled “injury prone” and faces speculation that his injuries are chronic.

why keep luke if we’re rebuilding? why do you “understand speculation” with cam but not luke? he’s worthless if we’re rebuilding. and if you think rebuilding is a quick job and that we can be competitive before luke’s gone or bad then uhhh...why would anyone “understand speculation on trading cam”? there’s an inconsistency with the rebuild talk. we’re simultaneously so bad the roster needs a complete overhaul and yet good enough to justify spending 8 figures on an aging linebacker with a history of brain injuries. a halfway rebuild means lots of 6-10 seasons. forcing out cam while clinging to guys like kuechly doesn’t show a commitment to present or future success. it’s fan service. kuechly does not fit a rebuild. draft picks are more valuable to a rebuilding team than 2020 luke kuechly.

I actually think both Cam and Luke are valuable in a rebuild, because I don't think that needs to take 8 years to happen.  Remember, we only had to go a couple seasons before we were competing for the playoffs under a new coach last time, and that could also happen here. 

I also understand speculation on trading Luke, albeit for different reasons than concerns he won't make it through a season.  There's plenty of speculation Luke will be gone too, as I mentioned previously.  I don't think that makes much sense either tbh, but it could if there is a nice offer and the Panthers don't see it a good idea to tie up >$100 mill in LBs, heh. (as a total aside, this is why I could see Luke leave before his next contract, but who knows).

I don't think the roster is so bad we need a complete overhaul.  But if you are the Panthers management and you think Cam can't make it through a season - OR you are worried that he can't, and he demands an extension - those are the times you would move on, I would imagine.  That doesn't mean I want it to happen... I just understand it.  Fans are dumb, me included, so I don't really care about the reasons some idiot fans want Cam out.

[TheRed]

There isn't really a rebuild process in the NFL that is kind to aging costly veterans unfortunately.

If this is a rebuild, we won't be competing for playoffs until 2021 or 2022. By that time Luke's contract will be up and he will be ready to do a retirement tour.

Tough conversations guys.

Tough conversations....

[Real1zOnly]

I think it's time for people to start realizing that a Cam Newton breakout is looking like a real possibility. I hate it, but it's not the end of the world. We can still root for Cam from afar. I know I will.

All good things must come to an end.

[Jon Snow]

4 hours ago, stan786 said:

The upsides of trading the Lukes and CMCs of the world also have to do with being able to draft at more valuable positions than LB and RB, building the team to Rhule's vision and process (even if you think his process is bullshit at least we know he values athletes and the LOS and thats a good base regardless), and the influx rookie contracts allowing for more FA moves.   I can see the pros to keeping them and trading them, but as always i'm spooked by Hurney.  I do think CMCs eventually going to be a ticking time bomb of a contract if we dont quickly learn how to use him less though.

If I were a betting man I would say it will go down like this.  The vets will be thinned out as their current contracts come to an end.  It will start with Cam this off-season and Luke the next.  CMC will stay until the end of his rookie contact and his extension will be based on the teams strength at that time.  If they can afford to move on they will. Bradberry is 50/50.  I almost believe they will let him walk.  

[MHS831]

Let's talk Chuck Noll. 

Chuck Noll took over as the Steelers' coach in 1969.  Little Davie Tepper was 12.   Noll went 1-13.  Tep was sad.

Noll would go on to two more losing seasons.  His three year overall record as the Steelers' coach was 12-30.  Tepper was 14 at that time.  Normally, the coach is fired.  But the Rooney's did not fire Noll.  He was gradually getting better each season, from 1 win to 5 wins to 6 wins.  The Rooney's stayed the course.  Little Tepper, now in high school had acne, liked football and money, and was a Steeler fan.

Over the next 10 years between Tepper;'s 15th and 25th birthdays,  when Tepper was learning how to become rich and developing his work ethic, those Steelers would paste together 10 winning seasons, 7 of which featured 10 wins or more.  Between the ages of 17 and 22, Tepper's, the Steelers won 4 Super Bowls.

The Rooney's did not fire their coach after three losing seasons.  They allowed him to build a dynasty.  Rhule's contract length is no typo, mistake, or act of a fool.  It is a guarantee that Tepper is going to rebuild without the early pressure to win. 

Tepper had a front row seat for this process during the most formative years of his life.  He believes in the system, and how magical must it have seemed to a kid watching a sea of bright yellow terrible towels usher in the dynasty that would solidify his love for winning.  The Steelers did it through the draft and coaching.  I expect that is what will happen here.

As for Cam, to be fair to him, he will be cut loose, sooner than most want.

[top dawg]

5 hours ago, bobsfoodbasics said:

I hope that quote means trading kuechly while he has some value left.

I almost gave you , but then concluded that it's a fair opinion. Now tell me how dumping the closest thing to a HoFer on our team is in our best interests? Kuechly's value isn't going anywhere anytime soon unless he gets hurt. On his current trajectory, he's likely in the conversation of best ever.

[Snake]

6 hours ago, TheRed said:

It's much easier to speak on these things than to actually go through the potentially exhausting task of implementing it.

So far all we have done is brought in a coach who says all the right things but has never won on his own at the NFL level before.

I'm done hearing talk and fluff. Let's get some results. There's nowhere to go but up after tumbling to the bottom of our division and conference. If your plan to dig our way out of that is to move on from dynamic talent, then you have to do everything within your capabilities to replace that talent.

I'm also not sold on our FO or his coordinator selection. The Snow dude at DC? Like we are not running a college program. 

[Sgt Schultz]

2 hours ago, TheRed said:

Early on we hammered them, 31 points in the first half, but in typical Ron Rivera Panthers fashion we went into conservative mode quickly in the second half.

It wasn't the NFC championship though, got it mixed up with the Cardinals game so that's my mistake.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game?gameId=400820435

Ok, I remember that one.  I, too, thought they were going to blow that lead.

[Sgt Schultz]

2 hours ago, TheRed said:

There isn't really a rebuild process in the NFL that is kind to aging costly veterans unfortunately.

If this is a rebuild, we won't be competing for playoffs until 2021 or 2022. By that time Luke's contract will be up and he will be ready to do a retirement tour.

Tough conversations guys.

Tough conversations....

Exactly.  If you are going to tear it down to start it over, you are potentially trading anyone who will not be of an age to see the other side of the rebuild that can return some value.  On the flip side, to expect them to complete their careers during a rebuild, with no guarantee of seeing anything, is not fair to them (at least offer them the option).

If it take three years, that puts Cam at 34, Luke at 32.  Not ancient, but also on the back end of their careers.  Assuming you get through the rebuild successfully, you are centered around a 34 year old QB and a 32 year old MLB.

Then there is the salary cap ramifications, which are really an unknown for both at this point.  Let's just say it will cost more than somebody ten years younger.  And the various injuries.

Rebuilds are tough.  Some very difficult decisions wind up being made. 

Now picture what is going on in New England right about now.  That one could be painful before the dust finally settles.

 

[JARROD]

[The Huddler]

id embrace it if it happens

 

 

it sucks i love Cam, but im all for a complete rebuild,l if it means we build a dynasty

[Gesualdo]

13 hours ago, Khaki Lackey said:

"Ya gotta gotta get up to get down" - Coolio

"You've got to get in to get out" - Genesis

The carpet crawlers heed their callers.

[jtm]

I don’t mind a rebuild, but I do mind one with a bunch of coaches and an owner with zero experience doing this in the NFL. I hope I’m wrong, but this looks like a recipe for disaster. 
 

I just can’t believe all these experts that Tepper hired to conduct the coaching search signed off on the Baylor HC and DC. 

[raz]

18 minutes ago, jtm said:

I don’t mind a rebuild, but I do mind one with a bunch of coaches and an owner with zero experience doing this in the NFL. I hope I’m wrong, but this looks like a recipe for disaster. 
 

I just can’t believe all these experts that Tepper hired to conduct the coaching search signed off on the Baylor HC and DC. 

its a thing you don't have to believe because it happened.  its not like an imaginary sky fairy