Marty on Rhule and Cam Newton status

[stirs]

After a couple days of the Rhule hire and thinking about visions and such, here is what I think.

We will trade Cam.  We will not get the "haul" everyone is talking about because there are too many questions about his health.

Rhule put guys on the field with heart, with talent, with fire for the game.  We might have a few that fit the bill, but need a lot of new players.  Getting an add'l 2nd and 4th for Cam, which seems cheap, but again, this is my guess, will fill some extra spots.

How many times do you expect the Panthers to draft top 10?   Maybe this year and next.  Keeping Cam might get us 7 or 8 wins, but not to the playoffs and mid round draft picks. So, if we are going to draft a QB going forward, these are the 2 seasons to do it, but you cannot reach and also, Rhule will want a leader, so is Herbert out?  I doubt we get Tua, too much hype unless a medical report comes back questionable.  So, look at the next set of QB's, their leadership, love of the game and leadership, and toughness and leadership.   Might be a Hurts, Love, Eason or Fromm.  There is not enough info in stats to give us the big picture on any of the guys love of the game.  This takes digging and I certainly worry about Hurney being involved.

I think we will be taking a more Belicek draft approach.  More picks, good workers, etc.  But, we don't have our Brady yet.

Bottom line, I think we are waiting on offers for Cam, there will be lots of discussions at the combine.  We will come away with less than what most fans think he is worth, we will sign a Rivers or Eli for a 2 year deal to help mentor our new guy.  He will start in his 2nd season.  We have dice, we are going to roll them

[1of10Charnatives]

18 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Kind of ironic you use that as an argument when we just hired an unproven college coach to be our next HC.

I hope that when they do get rid of Cam this year that this franchise becomes snakebitten at the Qb position so all of you little "huddlers" that have taken him for granted his entire career here will maybe understand 5 years from now the talent we actually had at the QB position. And you'll realize that franchise QBs do not actually grow on trees.

Cam deserves to have one last season to prove he can still be the guy. Hes earned that much. If they release/trade him without him getting an opportunity I hope this team never wins under Teppers ownership. Call me a Cam fan and say that I'm not a "real" panther fan I don't give a f***. I was actually around for the Clausen days I remember sitting in my living room ECSTATIC he fell to us in the second round only to find out he couldnt cut it in the NFL. Franchise QBs don't come around very often at all. That's why it would be a HUGE mistake for them to move on from Cam at this point.

 

 

I agree that yet shouldn’t move on from Cam without giving him that chance, but you are aware that Cam may not play because of an unwillingness to play without an extension, rather than the team’s unwillingness to give him a chance? Given the history of injuries, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the team to extend him without seeing if he can still perform for an entire season. The team may move on for reasons we shouldn’t really fault them for as fans. But yeah it would really suck if we never even got the chance to see what he can still do, and I hope he does and he can.

[thefuzz]

1 hour ago, stirs said:

After a couple days of the Rhule hire and thinking about visions and such, here is what I think.

We will trade Cam.  We will not get the "haul" everyone is talking about because there are too many questions about his health.

Rhule put guys on the field with heart, with talent, with fire for the game.  We might have a few that fit the bill, but need a lot of new players.  Getting an add'l 2nd and 4th for Cam, which seems cheap, but again, this is my guess, will fill some extra spots.

How many times do you expect the Panthers to draft top 10?   Maybe this year and next.  Keeping Cam might get us 7 or 8 wins, but not to the playoffs and mid round draft picks. So, if we are going to draft a QB going forward, these are the 2 seasons to do it, but you cannot reach and also, Rhule will want a leader, so is Herbert out?  I doubt we get Tua, too much hype unless a medical report comes back questionable.  So, look at the next set of QB's, their leadership, love of the game and leadership, and toughness and leadership.   Might be a Hurts, Love, Eason or Fromm.  There is not enough info in stats to give us the big picture on any of the guys love of the game.  This takes digging and I certainly worry about Hurney being involved.

I think we will be taking a more Belicek draft approach.  More picks, good workers, etc.  But, we don't have our Brady yet.

Bottom line, I think we are waiting on offers for Cam, there will be lots of discussions at the combine.  We will come away with less than what most fans think he is worth, we will sign a Rivers or Eli for a 2 year deal to help mentor our new guy.  He will start in his 2nd season.  We have dice, we are going to roll them

Obviously we have no idea what the future holds, but this is the most likely scenario in my head right now.

I don't think that we will be looking into the 2nd tier QB's this season, and if Tua doesn't fall in our laps, I think we will just embrace the tank and see what happens next offseason.

Gonna be a bumpy ride.

[raz]

2 hours ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Kind of ironic you use that as an argument when we just hired an unproven college coach to be our next HC.

I hope that when they do get rid of Cam this year that this franchise becomes snakebitten at the Qb position so all of you little "huddlers" that have taken him for granted his entire career here will maybe understand 5 years from now the talent we actually had at the QB position. And you'll realize that franchise QBs do not actually grow on trees.

Cam deserves to have one last season to prove he can still be the guy. Hes earned that much. If they release/trade him without him getting an opportunity I hope this team never wins under Teppers ownership. Call me a Cam fan and say that I'm not a "real" panther fan I don't give a f***. I was actually around for the Clausen days I remember sitting in my living room ECSTATIC he fell to us in the second round only to find out he couldnt cut it in the NFL. Franchise QBs don't come around very often at all. That's why it would be a HUGE mistake for them to move on from Cam at this point.

 

 

so you hope we suck, and admit you've been wrong before.   ok.   i wanted spurrier.  i was stoked about adam meadows.   i thought eric shelton was gonna run over people.   i could go on.   

[Mr Mojo Risin]

12 minutes ago, raz said:

so you hope we suck, and admit you've been wrong before.   ok.   i wanted spurrier.  i was stoked about adam meadows.   i thought eric shelton was gonna run over people.   i could go on.   

There are some things in the NFL you just don't do. Exiling the top talent on the team you just got hired to coach is something you don't do. Josh McDaniels in Denver how'd shipping off Cutler workout for him? Or how about Gruden and the Raiders? I could also go on. The grass isn't always greener on the other side my friend. Getting rid of Cam Newton right now will only hurt this team in the short and long term. And if that's what they decide to do then so be it but this team will be a bottom feeder for years to come if that happens.

[raz]

10 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

There are some things in the NFL you just don't do. Exiling the top talent on the team you just got hired to coach is something you don't do. Josh McDaniels in Denver how'd shipping off Cutler workout for him? Or how about Gruden and the Raiders? I could also go on. Getting rid of Cam Newton right now will only hurt this team in the short and long term.

that's your opinion.  you also don't extend a guy that hasn't been healthy in years.  this is a little more complicated than you think.  if cam wants to play on a 1 year prove it deal fine.   however if the new coach doesn't want to deal with cam while rebuilding that's the end of that too.  i'm sure cam wants a sb because the narrative on him isn't gonna be great w/out one.  he'll be looked at like a flash in the pan from the national media - he already is. we may want to stockpile some picks to build like rhule wants too.  his contract is much longer than cams.  like it or not cam isn't the sheriff anymore.   it would be a lot more fair to cam to let him seek employment elsewhere, somewhere that's not rebuilding and has a shot at winning now also.  i don't think our future and cams are gonna be together and that's not a bad thing for either.  just an opinion.  i've been wrong too many times to count.  and bellicheat has sent top talent packing more times than i can count.  

[Mr Mojo Risin]

6 minutes ago, raz said:

that's your opinion.  you also don't extend a guy that hasn't been healthy in years.  this is a little more complicated than you think.  if cam wants to play on a 1 year prove it deal fine.   however if the new coach doesn't want to deal with cam while rebuilding that's the end of that too.  i'm sure cam wants a sb because the narrative on him isn't gonna be great w/out one.  he'll be looked at like a flash in the pan from the national media - he already is. we may want to stockpile some picks to build like rhule wants too.  his contract is much longer than cams.  like it or not cam isn't the sheriff anymore.   it would be a lot more fair to cam to let him seek employment elsewhere, somewhere that's not rebuilding and has a shot at winning now also.  i don't think our future and cams are gonna be together and that's not a bad thing for either.  just an opinion.  i've been wrong too many times to count.  and bellicheat has sent top talent packing more times than i can count.  

Well of course its my opinion lol that's what this message board consists of mostly. But nothing wrong with having a debate about the differing opinions on different topics. I hope I'm wrong but I feel like Cam is gone and this team isn't going to be good for awhile and it's like what's the point in purposely sabotaging your season? Like I get it Cams situation goes beyond the football field. However, he has stated he wants to be here if the front office has mutual feelings then he will be here. The only way he won't be here is of Rhule wants to go 100% rebuild no questions asked which I feel is a mistake because i obviously feel Cam is still good enough to get us to the playoffs. Am i right? Hard telling, wont know the answer to most of these questions until it happens

[MHS831]

On 1/9/2020 at 10:25 AM, joemac said:

Yes?  Its not different than any other team with a "franchise QB".  You must pay for top talent.  

Tepper is not proposing a rebuild like any other team with a franchise QB.  He is building a dynasty---like Noll did in the 70s.  Noll was hired in 1969 when Rookie QB Terry Hanratty from Notre Dame was the QB on a team that went 1-13.  It was the same year the Steelers drafted LC Greenwood and Mean Joe.  Bradshaw was the #1 draft pick in 1970, and he struggled for 2 years before the light came on (and he got some WRs).

While anyone could argue that there is no way that we will do everything that happened 50 years ago to build that dynasty, there is little doubt that it left an impression on the owner.  The point is this---if the team wants a dynasty and not another rebuild in 2-4 years, should they build around Cam?

I think Cam will stay in 2020 unless the Panthers get a first rounder for him or he is unhealthy.   I just do not feel the excitement about him coming from the coach, GM, or owner--they never mention him unless pressed to do so, then the answer is elusive or vague. 

It is my bet that they will draft the franchise qb of the dynasty they are building in 2020 or 2021.  

This will be the most interesting, divisive, confusing, etc.  off season ever.

[MHS831]

26 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Well of course its my opinion lol that's what this message board consists of mostly. But nothing wrong with having a debate about the differing opinions on different topics. I hope I'm wrong but I feel like Cam is gone and this team isn't going to be good for awhile and it's like what's the point in purposely sabotaging your season? Like I get it Cams situation goes beyond the football field. However, he has stated he wants to be here if the front office has mutual feelings then he will be here. The only way he won't be here is of Rhule wants to go 100% rebuild no questions asked which I feel is a mistake because i obviously feel Cam is still good enough to get us to the playoffs. Am i right? Hard telling, wont know the answer to most of these questions until it happens

You are both making valid points. I think we are imitating the Steelers rebuild of 1969--when they hired Noll from the Colts after losing to the Jets in Super Bowl III.

Brick by brick--through the draft.  However the Steelers did not have franchise QB when Noll took over-they had just drafted Hanratty out of Notre Dame, who went 1-13 as a rookie, albeit in an era when most rookie QBs sat out for a season or two and held clip boards.

About your points---the biggest supposition is, "I obviously feel that Cam is still good enough to get us to the playoffs..."

I agree, but I would not bank on it.  And few would argue that a running QB at 32 is probably in decline, especially if his run threat compensated for other issues such as accuracy.  However, the end of the sentence is telling--"to get us to the playoffs."  I do not think that is the goal and I do think that is about all we can hope for with an aging, oft-injured Cam. 

This could be the offseason when teams lose their faces.   New England, New Orleans (less likely), Carolina, the LA Chargers--and to a lesser degree Oakland---what an amazing off season we are entering.

[Mr Mojo Risin]

21 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

You are both making valid points. I think we are imitating the Steelers rebuild of 1969--when they hired Noll from the Colts after losing to the Jets in Super Bowl III.

Brick by brick--through the draft.  However the Steelers did not have franchise QB when Noll took over-they had just drafted Hanratty out of Notre Dame, who went 1-13 as a rookie, albeit in an era when most rookie QBs sat out for a season or two and held clip boards.

About your points---the biggest supposition is, "I obviously feel that Cam is still good enough to get us to the playoffs..."

I agree, but I would not bank on it.  And few would argue that a running QB at 32 is probably in decline, especially if his run threat compensated for other issues such as accuracy.  However, the end of the sentence is telling--"to get us to the playoffs."  I do not think that is the goal and I do think that is about all we can hope for with an aging, oft-injured Cam. 

This could be the offseason when teams lose their faces.   New England, New Orleans (less likely), Carolina, the LA Chargers--and to a lesser degree Oakland---what an amazing off season we are entering.

It really is hard telling what's going to happen so I understand when people use that as the basis of their argument and it is an exciting time because you don't know what's in store for the future it could be bad, good, or more mediocrity like we've grown accustomed too. I will say we definitely are trying to reach new grounds Rhule was definitely an outside the box hire, I'm just not so sure it was the right one. So many people including me have felt like the previous regime wasted Cams talents mostly due to incompetence. Not to say Cam doesn't deserve part of the blame but we've never really put him in a position to succeed, it was either put this team on your back or we will fail. This was supposed to be the time we got a good offense and offensive mind around d him to utilize him to the best of their and his ability. It's just really sad to think Cam wont get that chance and most of his prime years were wasted. That's definitely my biggest issue with this whole situation.

 

Pie for bringing up the Steelers that's obviously something Tepper probably looked closely at and remembers quite a bit from his child/early adulthood. Makes sense hed want to try and do something similar.