McDaniels in Denver: What he learned

[t96]

3 hours ago, Carolina Cajun said:

FWIW, by this logic Belichick would have also been considered proven trash after his stint with Clevland in the 90's.  I personally want McDaniels, but would be ok with any of the options besides Rhule and Fewell.

Not exactly. Belichick went to the playoffs and won a playoff game without full control of football operations. Then he got full control with the Pats and did say better. 

 

McDaniels had full control and gutted the Broncos, going 11-17 with no playoffs. If you paired him with a great GM who had control of the roster, MAYBE he could do better. But hiring him again to have full control would be retarded, and reports are that is what he wants this go around. Hope Cleveland gives it to him.

[Wes21]

Thanks for posting this interview.  It definitely jives with the things I have seen players say about what happened in Denver.

If Josh were 45 years old or something like that when he got his first HC gig, I would definitely stay away.  I can't see someone like that changes much.  But he was just a kid in his early 30s when he was the Broncos HC.  Theres lots of room to grow from there. 

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, raz said:

looking at the book i was like - that's a cop, cop, sketchy as fug person, cop

Well you can't do that test when you are super high. It just makes you paranoid. 

[Wes21]

9 minutes ago, t96 said:

Not exactly. Belichick went to the playoffs and won a playoff game without full control of football operations. Then he got full control with the Pats and did say better. 

 

McDaniels had full control and gutted the Broncos, going 11-17 with no playoffs. If you paired him with a great GM who had control of the roster, MAYBE he could do better. But hiring him again to have full control would be retarded, and reports are that is what he wants this go around. Hope Cleveland gives it to him.

Bill was 13-19 after his first 2 years in Cleveland.  His 3rd season was another losing season as well.

[onmyown]

I just don’t want him. Yea maybe if Stefan or Bien wasn’t an option. Then I’d be torn between him and McCarthy.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Or your a first time coach and you think you should act like the boss because you’ve never been the boss.

I’ll be honest that I kind of like the fact that he has been a head coach before and based on Brady’s comment, it sure does seem like he’s changed his approach compared to his comment about Cutler.

Also, I still don’t care at all about the Colts fiasco. Their owner is an alcoholic and god knows what else. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to have some hesitations and decide that it isn’t the right opportunity. Maybe he got wind of Luck’s injuries as well.

It worries me more about Stefanksi, Bienemy or Rhule who don’t have any NFL head coaching experience or any head coaching experience at all. I don’t know who’s the right choice but there’s plenty of coaches like Carroll and Belichick who failed first time around and obviously did a much better job the second time. I’m going to give the guy who coached under one of those guys a chance and not assume he didn’t learn or can’t change.

Yeah but for every Carroll and Belichick there are more retreads that just never work out. Plus they both coached teams to the playoffs and/or division titles during their first stints, unlike McDaniels. 

[panthers55]

8 hours ago, Woodie said:

The red flag is for the man that doesn't learn to treat people better.  McDaniels did learn.  He self-analyzed, and realized he wasn't treating people with the respect they deserve, so it is one of the many changes he has made.

Understanding why he was so disliked is the first step toward changing his behavior but just acknowledging it doesn't necessarily change how he thinks or feels. One question you have to ask is why after all of his experience in football did he think the approach he took in Denver was a good one in the first place. It speaks to his personality and belief about people.  I am glad he has had several epiphanies about how he screwed up but I would still have concerns about how well he can implement a complete turnaround and why it took a complete failure to figure out what most folks learned much earlier in life. 

[hepcat]

McDaniels is an asshole. It’s well documented. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t be a good head coach. You don’t think some other head coaches in the NFL aren’t the nicest dudes in the room?

Ron Rivera and Dave Gettleman worked well together because it was a classic good cop-bad cop setup. Ron was loved by the players and Gettleman got to be bad cop to hold them accountable when they sucked. Hurney and Rivera are both good cops. The players had no one to fear and thus, the team collapsed every year.

McDaniels and Hurney might actually work. It’s the riskiest pairing of the possible scenarios. And if the plan is to bring in Nick Caserio or whoever from the Patriots organization to be GM, I’m way more nervous there will be too many bad cops and McDaniels history from Denver repeats itself in Carolina.

[ncdrifter]

9 hours ago, rayzor said:

They don't have the potential he has.

He screwed up his first chance. Why wouldn't he be better this time around. 

Obviously not perfect like you have obviously always been, but most of us have made big mistakes when we were young that we learned from and shaped us into better people and even better leaders. No reason to think he's not one that has. The guy was humbled, something that he and many if us have needed to grow into something better.

 

 

 

 

emember. Belicheck screwed the pooch in his first head coaching job. It was Cleveland and he lost control of the team and fought with the press. Sound familiar?

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Completely different scenarios. Carroll took over a team that was in the SB the year before and the team got worse every year. Belichick was 5-11 his first year with the Pats after Carroll. Carroll took over a talented team and made it worse, that’s why he was fired. McDaniels has about the same start as Belichick but only coached 2 years. It was his own fault for getting rid of Cutler and trying to win with Orton. Belichick went to the playoffs in his 4th year and then went 5-11 in year 5.

There’s nothing in the three coaching stints that would tell me that Carroll and Belichick would have success and McDaniels would not.

 

Well he had a better record than his predecessor and the same amount of playoff appearances. I am not going to agree he "took over a talented team and made them worse." Parcells looked better than he performed because of his SB appearance but he never even had back to back winning seasons there(sound familiar?). There was a reason that Kraft said it was a very difficult decision and Pete has largely been vindicated in hindsight, as well. 

I think people are too quick to look at Belichick and use that as an example to support the claim that retreads are a good idea. I just personally disagree about McDaniels. IMO, he is going to end up with 1-3 more NFL head coaching jobs and then be relegated to being a very good offensive coordinator for a very long time. Not all coordinators are suited to be head coaches, I happen to think he will be an example of that.

 

[JARROD]

9 hours ago, t96 said:

Rhule, Bieniemy, Stefanski are also potential huge reward hires. McDaniels is proven trash.

That’s why my choice is McCarthy.

 

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, raz said:

thanks for doing that man.  stupid stupid dean.    fwiw i had some of the same issues with a few of the businesses i've owned as mcd seems to have had.   work was an escape from social and/or familial relations.  they can be exhausting for us.  work was a place for perfection.  a place of escape.  a place to lose myself in the work.    before i realized that's not how it was for everyone i had a lot of issues with employees, was way too hard on them, withheld appreciation and affection if their work wasn't perfect...  i treated them the way i operate at work.   i made them miserable.     

Sounds like strengths-based leadership----not always the best route, but it was what you knew--and you describe what McDaniels is saying.

[MHS831]

4 minutes ago, JARROD said:

That’s why my choice is McCarthy.

 

I will be honest---what I do not know about these candidates is more significant that what I know---so I am going to trust the process.

McCarthy is perhaps the safest bet.  He has experience and the clout to assemble a top-notch staff--something that I have not read yet as one of the top reasons to hire a coach.  

For example, you may like Stef or EB as a coach, but what kind of staff could each put together?  You can have the best conductor in the world, but if the orchestra is inexperienced.....

 

[MHS831]

38 minutes ago, hepcat said:

McDaniels is an asshole. It’s well documented. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t be a good head coach. You don’t think some other head coaches in the NFL aren’t the nicest dudes in the room?

Ron Rivera and Dave Gettleman worked well together because it was a classic good cop-bad cop setup. Ron was loved by the players and Gettleman got to be bad cop to hold them accountable when they sucked. Hurney and Rivera are both good cops. The players had no one to fear and thus, the team collapsed every year.

McDaniels and Hurney might actually work. It’s the riskiest pairing of the possible scenarios. And if the plan is to bring in Nick Caserio or whoever from the Patriots organization to be GM, I’m way more nervous there will be too many bad cops and McDaniels history from Denver repeats itself in Carolina.

Very interesting take-