Who to blame, coach or GM?

[Car123]

We played well in the beginning of the season, even competing with the best teams in the league with a backup qb. We suddenly turned into the worst team in the league when Cam was shut down for the season. This tells me the coaches couldn’t motivate our players.

[Raleigh PF]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's a pretty major flaw in your argument here.

You're using players that came from two different GM's to evaluate the performance of one GM.

One of many reasons why if you want to judge realistically, you have to look at the whole roster, not just cherry pick the best or worst players.

I'm not propping up Marty as much as I'm more convinced than ever that Rivera was a sub-par coach. Yes, the players are from two different GMs. The common ground here is how little Rivera did with the talent he was given. 

If you look at what Belichick is able to do with his roster (unfair comparison, maybe), it just screams out loud that the talent here was not developed properly. The players I listed would likely be starters on most teams and I can't think of even one of them that improved once they became a Panther. To be fair, I can't think of many ex-Panthers that improved upon leaving, which doesn't speak well for the GM.

I've been trying to figure out who should take the larger portion of the blame for the Panther's failures over the last couple of years and I think it's weighted far more against Rivera than it is Marty, at this point. I believe there is talent on this team beyond the guys I've listed, but the Panthers have lacked the coaching ability to cultivate that talent. 

That doesn't make Marty a great GM, it just makes me believe that Ron is a not-so-great coach.

[Cavscout]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

Fans have a tendency of overrating their own players.

Players on this team that would 100% start on all of the playoff teams:  CMC, Luke.

Players that would start on most of the playoff teams:  Moore, McCoy, Shaq, Bradberry.

Players that could start for a couple of the playoff teams:  Turner, Moton, Burns, Addison.

It's the "halo" effect, people overlook faults in people they like and exaggerate their good qualities 

[Forty-Eight]

Jerry Richardson for hiring Marty. 

Marty for being Marty. 

Tepper for keeping Marty and paying little attention to the Panthers.

[Jon Snow]

Spoken as if it came from Marty himself.   Keep polishing that turd.

[mc52beast]

For one thing all those players mentioned aren’t Hurney guys.

Ask yourself this question; how many owners called Hurney after he got fired and offered him a job? As far as I know nobody did. What does that tell you?  

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

5 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ron Rivera succeeded with one GM but failed with the other.

Marty Hurney failed with two different head coaches, and spectacularly failed with Rivera. They were a terrible combination because they had too many similar weaknesses.

Rivera is getting another chance. Gettleman got another chance.

Does anybody really believe Marty's going to get another chance anywhere but here?

Your point would make sense if you ignore some major issues.

1) People hate Gettleman in NY.  They want him fired.  Yesterday.  I am unsure if there is any other GM that gets made fun of more..nationwide..than Gettleman right now.

2) Rivers had 3 years under Hurney.  Newton was either a rookie or injured.  That majorly skews things.

The people that dislike Hurney 2.0 fail to ever look at him in a rational light.  The key aspect seems to be taking things out of context to push a narrative.

[Mr. Scot]

20 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

Your point would make sense if you ignore some major issues.

1) People hate Gettleman in NY.  They want him fired.  Yesterday.  I am unsure if there is any other GM that gets made fun of more..nationwide..than Gettleman right now.

2) Rivers had 3 years under Hurney.  Newton was either a rookie or injured.  That majorly skews things.

The people that dislike Hurney 2.0 fail to ever look at him in a rational light.  The key aspect seems to be taking things out of context to push a narrative.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the problem is that people are just looking at Marty Hurney in the wrong context 

That's some high comedy.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

I bet bobowilson has an opinion

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oh yeah, I'm sure the problem is that people are just looking at Marty Hurney in the wrong context 

That's some high comedy

So you feel its fair to say that Hurney failed with Rivera while 

A) Rivera had one year with Hurney.  Which had just followed a 2-14 year where the Panthers picked 1st over all and had a rookie QB

B) 2 years were Rivera didn't have a healthy QB?

I just want to make sure I am on the same page with your evaluation.   Are you implying that Hurney was at fault for Newton's injuries?  Trying to understand how this could make sense.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

So you feel its fair to say that Hurney failed with Rivera while 

A) Rivera had one year with Hurney.  Which had just followed a 2-14 year where the Panthers picked 1st over all and had a rookie QB

B) 2 years were Rivera didn't have a healthy QB?

I just want to make sure I am on the same page with your evaluation.   Are you implying that Hurney was at fault for Newton's injuries?  Trying to understand how this could make sense.

Hurney failed with both Fox and Rivera.

But I have a new appreciation for him now that you've explained his win-loss record as a GM is just taken out of context 

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Hurney failed with both Fox and Rivera.

But I have a new appreciation for him now that you've explained his win-loss record as a GM is just taken out of context

He failed with Rivera based on what?

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

He failed with Rivera based on what?

When was the last time we had a winning season with Hurney setting the roster again?

Heck, let me ask you an even simpler question. Would Marty Hurney still have been an NFL GM past the mid-2000s if anybody other than Jerry Richardson had owned the team at that time?

(and don't bother trying to use David Tepper as an argument because besides the fact that it looks like Tepper is set to either reduce his role or part ways with him, he wasn't even a minority owner until 2009)

[Cpt slay a ho]

It’s been the coach anyone saying otherwise has an agenda