Tua returning?

[Varking]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Gotcha, it's hard to debate that.  But turning the argument on it's head doesn't really hold water.  Put a good QB on a really, really bad team...they are less bad, but immediate contenders????

Colts 2011 = 2-14.

Colts 2012 with Andrew Luck = 11-5. 

Contenders. 

[Varking]

5 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Gotcha, it's hard to debate that.  But turning the argument on it's head doesn't really hold water.  Put a good QB on a really, really bad team...they are less bad, but immediate contenders????

98 Rams = 4-12

99 Rams with Kurt Warner = 13-3

Contenders

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Gotcha, it's hard to debate that.  But turning the argument on it's head doesn't really hold water.  Put a good QB on a really, really bad team...they are less bad, but immediate contenders????

I think the example that makes the most sense to  use the is the average roster.  You insert a good QB....the team is good.  You insert a bad QB and the team is bad.

I mean, I think a Patrick Mahomes type inserted on this team this year? We have a winning record.  We wouldn't be a dominate team w/ all our holes but we would have been a winning team.  I mean w/ a bad QB we won 5 and had many that game down to just getting it on the 1 yard line.  Special QB pending how the ball bounces 8-11 wins. 

[Varking]

7 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Gotcha, it's hard to debate that.  But turning the argument on it's head doesn't really hold water.  Put a good QB on a really, really bad team...they are less bad, but immediate contenders????

2005 Saints = 3-13

2006 Saints with Brees = 10-6 and won the division.

Contenders. 

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, Varking said:

What did the Titans look like this year with Mariota vs Tanne? How did the Ravens look last year and this year going from Flacco to Jackson? Look what happened in Denver once Lock got to start...

QB makes way more of a difference than you are implying. 

Did they lose two Pro Bowlers to retirement?  Did they change defensive schemes that players were ill-fit for.  Did the coach get canned?   Did they lose key players to IR?  Lastly, were those teams garbage in the first place or just need a boost at the QB spot?

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Maybe or you are putting too much stock into one position.  Agreed QB is hugely important, but a good...even very good QB can't overcome a horrible roster.  To me garbage is a horrible roster.

Maybe it's semantics and garbage to you is simple bad...to me is atrocious.  A QB alone can't overcome a roster of ineptitude.

What do you think the Seahawks do this season without Wilson? I'm giving them 6, maybe 7 wins tops and the only reason I'm giving them that is because they have an elite head coach in Pete Carroll. Give them Rivera and company and they'd look like this year's Panthers.

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, Varking said:

2005 Saints = 3-13

2006 Saints with Brees = 10-6 and won the division.

Contenders. 

Saints, ZERO losses without Brees this year.

[Varking]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

Did they lose two Pro Bowlers to retirement?  Did they change defensive schemes that players were ill-fit for.  Did the coach get canned?   Did they lose key players to IR?  Lastly, were those teams garbage in the first place or just need a boost at the QB spot?

I was pointing out that you were undervaluing the QB position. The only thing that changed on the Titans was the QB and they went from mid first round pick to playoffs and their offense took off in a major way. One change. QB. 

[Varking]

Just now, 45catfan said:

Saints, ZERO losses without Brees this year.

That is pretty awesome that while Drew Brees was out they beat 4-5 teams that did not make the playoffs this year. 

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What do you think the Seahawks do this season without Wilson? I'm giving them 6, maybe 7 wins tops and the only reason I'm giving them that is because they have an elite head coach in Pete Carroll. Give them Rivera and company and they'd look like this year's Panthers.

Possibly, but Rivera had obviously lost the team and was fired.  He showed last year he lacked the tools to rally a team.  So we fire sale based on if Cam comes back and cut the knees out from the brand new staff?  Cam should not be the pivoting point in the decision.

[45catfan]

Just now, Varking said:

That is pretty awesome that while Drew Brees was out they beat 4-5 teams that did not make the playoffs this year. 

Hey, they did it though.  If it was all Brees, they should have lost a few, eh?

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, 45catfan said:

Possibly, but Rivera had obviously lost the team and was fired.  He showed last year he lacked the tools to rally a team.  So we fire sale based on if Cam comes back and cut the knees out from the brand new staff?  Cam should not be the pivoting point in the decision.

But he is because the QB position is just THAT important. @Varking listed several examples of dramatic turns in fortune based on the addition of an elite franchise QB.

[Varking]

Just now, 45catfan said:

Hey, they did it though.  If it was all Brees, they should have lost a few, eh?

Oh shoot! Did I say this years New Orleans Saints team was all Drew Brees? I specifically referenced him taking over a garbage team when he got there. This is how I keep confirming you aren't reading what is written in full. You start reading and then twist it to something else so you can keep quoting people. 

[BurnHurnBurn]

29 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

No matter what he is getting paid from Alabama alums, he will make much, much more money on one top 10 pick rookie deal. Tua can basically only hurt his draft stock at this point and it would be completely absurd to return there.

Any other school and I would agree.  I dont care what he does.  I just want to see these kids stay and develop rather than coming out early and struggling to play against adults.  The league would be better for it.  Even if the risk is to lose a few rising stars.  They have insurance policies on body parts now.