The Athletic reports that Marty Hurney will stay on as GM, and is negotiating contracts for Bradberry and Boston

[Harbingers]

1 minute ago, bobowilson said:

I've explained why Hurney should be given ~85-90% of credit for 2013/2015/2017 too many times to count

At this point people are just being obstinate in not accepting the reality of it

If you want to think we went 15-1 because of Kurt Coleman and Trai Turner, there's nothing more I can say to sway your opinion.

 

How many winning seasons did Hurney have as GM? While he held the position of GM?

[Tbe]

Just now, bobowilson said:

I've explained why Hurney should be given ~85-90% of credit for 2013/2015/2017 too many times to count

At this point people are just being obstinate in not accepting the reality of it

If you want to think we went 15-1 because of Kurt Coleman and Trai Turner, there's nothing more I can say to sway your opinion.

 

Hurney deserves credit, but he got those star players because he put together roster after roster that netted him top 5 picks. You have to factor that in.

Also, how much of that 2015 D line was Hurney? On the O line, Oher, Tuner, Norwell absolutely matter. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Harbingers said:

How many winning seasons did Hurney have as GM? While he held the position of GM?

But, but, but... he made a handful of late round picks that turned out really well!!! That means he's a great GM!!! 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Tbe said:

Hurney deserves credit, but he got those star players because he put together roster after roster that netted him top 5 picks. You have to factor that in.

Also, how much of that 2015 D line was Hurney? On the O line, Oher, Tuner, Norwell absolutely matter. 

I think Charles Johnson was about it. We were utterly wiped out at DT.

[bobowilson]

2 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Hurney deserves credit, but he got those star players because he put together roster after roster that netted him top 5 picks. You have to factor that in.

Also, how much of that 2015 D line was Hurney? On the O line, Oher, Tuner, Norwell absolutely matter. 

Oher and Norwell were never 30% as good as people thought they were.  We ran max protection schemes that entire year, and Cam Newton's elusive style makes everyone seem a lot better than they really are.  Our entire 2015 OL was smoke and mirrors and scheme related (Atlanta and Denver realized it).

Oher was terrible his entire career, and Jacksonville is now realizing what a jag Norwell was.

Trai Turner was a good starter, but not elite by any measure.   Credit for Gettleman for drafting Trai Turner, but if the 2nd best move you ever made as a general manager was drafting an above average guard, you probably were a pretty terrible GM.

 

[Tbe]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

I think Charles Johnson was about it. We were utterly wiped out at DT.

Exactly, one guy. And he wasn’t a huge factor that season outside of his leadership. That D line was the reason the secondary balled out. The field position that defense consistently gave, is the reason the offense ranked #1 that year. I’ll have to find the stat again, but when you adjust for field position, that 2015 offense ranked 21st that year.

[Mr. Scot]

48 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Also average GM's dont typically last 10-15 years in the nfl. 

Having an owner who cares more about loyalty than competence helps an awful lot.

[Tbe]

1 minute ago, bobowilson said:

Oher and Norwell were never 30% as good as people thought they were.  We ran max protection schemes that entire year, and Cam Newton's elusive style makes everyone seem a lot better than they really are.  Our entire 2015 OL was smoke and mirrors and scheme related (Atlanta and Denver realized it).

Oher was terrible his entire career, and Jacksonville is now realizing what a jag Norwell was.

Trai Turner was a good starter, but not elite by any measure.   Credit for Gettleman for drafting Trai Turner, but if the 2nd best move you ever made as a general manager was drafting an above average guard, you probably were a pretty terrible GM.

 

Thanks for glossing over the D line.

[LinvilleGorge]

@bobowilson you can't see the forest for the trees. 1st round picks, the occasional hit on a late rounder, this individual factor, that individual factor - those are the trees. The forest is the overall W-L record.

 

[carpanfan96]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Having an owner who cares more about loyalty than competence helps an awful lot.

Very true. Question though, is that better or worse then an owner who thinks he's the smartest man in the room and out thinks himself? Not saying that's Tepper just yet, but he's made some weird decisions so far. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, carpanfan96 said:

Very true. Question though, is that better or worse then an owner who thinks he's the smartest man in the room and out thinks himself? Not saying that's Tepper just yet, but he's made some weird decisions so far. 

As of now, I'm honestly not convinced in the least that our on field success is going to be anymore consistent under Tepper than it was under JR.

[Tbe]

1 minute ago, carpanfan96 said:

Very true. Question though, is that better or worse then an owner who thinks he's the smartest man in the room and out thinks himself? Not saying that's Tepper just yet, but he's made some weird decisions so far. 

We don’t know anything. The only decision Tepper has made was to fire Ron. We don’t know what he really thinks of Hurney yet and we don’t know what he’ll do for a head coach or with Cam. We have 3-5 years before We’ll have a good read on him.

[bobowilson]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

@bobowilson you can't see the forest for the trees. 1st round picks, the occasional hit on a late rounder, this individual factor, that individual factor - those are the trees. The forest is the overall W-L record.

 

Not to derail this into tinderbox territory, but if we want to take such a reductionist view of things, Trump must be the greatest president in US history.  I mean, look at the S&P 500.

He happens to be the guy in office, so I'll assume everything that ever happened in the history of capitalism was a result of his brilliance.

 

[Palmetto]

The Panthers wont be winning any Super Bowls with Hurney at the helm

unless we bring in the next Bill Parcels to coach up these average azz players