"Several Defensive players in a group chat about wanting to play elsewhere"

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

Sadly we can't blow up the defense. BC then we'd have to draft/sign new guys which means we once again ignore the OL.

Yeah, I mean we cannot do a one season complete rebuild. Some things are going to have to get punted, like it or not. 

[Uwontdoit81]

2 hours ago, blackcat said:

This sounds alot like when Gettleman was hired and hurt everyone's feelings by not giving them what they wanted.  

Might be a little job scared since their good buddy Ron got the boot.  Might have to go and actually prove themselves again.

[Carl Spackler]

57 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I disagree that they are JAG's. Irvin and Boston specifically are starting quality players, Cockrell is an upper tier depth guy, IMO. None of them are irreplaceable but generally "irreplaceable" players tend to be of the "franchise" caliber. 

Boston was available because of the way he is, which we have discussed and Irvin was available because he's an older player at a position that traditionally is in decline. In 13 games here he set a career best in sacks. Had he played the full 16 games we was on pace to be in the top two career performances in tackles, QB Hits and TFL, as well. He was actually pretty good for us, but it was lost in a sea of being a bad team. Similarly Boston had a pretty good year, only allowing 8 receptions on 16 targets, while picking off 3 passes. Also set a career high in passes defensed. Cockrell was very solid, as well. He definitely outproduced quite a few 2nd or 3rd CB's in the NFL. 

I understand the reason why it's easy to assume that because we had a terrible defense that all players on it were also bad, but it's also not true. You aren't going to look good when your defense is allowing league worst rushing stats, despite being second in the league in sacks and 7th in QB Hits. Even our passing defense statistics ranged from mediocre to very good. It's just that the sum of some of these individual things did not work out well, quite obviously. It also didn't help that we had an unbelievably bad offense that kept that defense on the field(23rd in the NFL in TOP). 

And I also understand why everyone is wanting to nuke everything, because it was such a painful and horrific season to have to sit through. But it's also not a prudent move. Some of these parts should be retained, whether for performance reasons, financial reasons or both. It's a stretch to say that we can go out and obtain better players in all of these positions in one offseason, it is just not reasonable to have huge amounts of turnover and get better as a team. 

Well part of rebuilding means that it’s gonna take more than a year. For the crowd who hated 7-9, myself included, it’s OK.

We’re gonna be lucky to win a total of seven games the next two or three seasons. Trim the fat. Don’t go stupid and trade one of our 5 best players then whine about a lack of fan interest, but if a middling starter wants to go elsewhere, great. Peace out. We’ll have high draft picks to replace them. 

[kungfoodude]

12 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Well part of rebuilding means that it’s gonna take more than a year. For the crowd who hated 7-9, myself included, it’s OK.

We’re gonna be lucky to win a total of seven games the next two or three seasons. Trim the fat. Don’t go stupid and trade one of our 5 best players then whine about a lack of fan interest, but if a middling starter wants to go elsewhere, great. Peace out. We’ll have high draft picks to replace them. 

Yeah, I mean a true teardown and rebuild will take a while. Conservatively, and assuming things go well, probably 3-5 seasons before we are legitimately a competitive playoff team again.

[Seltzer]

12 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Well part of rebuilding means that it’s gonna take more than a year. For the crowd who hated 7-9, myself included, it’s OK.

We’re gonna be lucky to win a total of seven games the next two or three seasons. Trim the fat. Don’t go stupid and trade one of our 5 best players then whine about a lack of fan interest, but if a middling starter wants to go elsewhere, great. Peace out. We’ll have high draft picks to replace them. 

I'm not disagreeing about the rebuilding part but if it takes more than 2 seasons it's already a failure considering the amount of turnover on NFL rosters. 

[Seltzer]

8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I mean a true teardown and rebuild will take a while. Conservatively, and assuming things go well, probably 3-5 seasons before we are legitimately a competitive playoff team again.

I think that such idea is a loser mentality. Too much can change, and injuries are way too much of a wild card to approach with that mentality IMO. Of course next year might be a rebuilding year, but guys like CMC and Kuechly ain't hanging around for a multi year rebuild. I sure as hell wouldn't. Careers are way too short.

And what are you going to do, trade them too?

If so, at what point why even have a team or try to be competitive? A NFL roster can be almost completely rebuilt in 2 years time, especially if you have a QB.

Next year might be a disaster. I hope not but I have accepted that as a potential reality. Accepting anything beyond that is unacceptable.  We've hired the wrong guy and have the wrong plan if so.

Even Ron almost got let go after his 2nd year, and he inherited a 2-14 with less talent than this team.

I work in sales. You can get a mulligan for one year. Never two, regardless of the circumstances.

I dont think the NFL is different unless there are unique circumstances. I dont see how our current situation fits that, and I damn well hope Tepper doesn't 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Seltzer said:

I think that such idea is a loser mentality. Too much can change, and injuries are way too much of a wild card to approach with that mentality IMO. Of course next year might be a rebuilding year, but guys like CMC and Kuechly ain't hanging around for a multi year rebuild. I sure as hell wouldn't. Careers are way too short.

And what are you going to do, trade them too?

If so, at what point why even have a team or try to be competitive? A NFL roster can be almost completely rebuilt in 2 years time, especially if you have a QB.

Next year might be a disaster. I hope not but I have accepted that as a potential reality. Accepting anything beyond that is unacceptable.  We've hired the wrong guy and have the wrong plan if so.

Even Ron almost got let go after his 2nd year, and he inherited a 2-14 with less talent than this team.

I work in sales. You can get a mulligan for one year. Never two, regardless of the circumstances.

I dont think the NFL is different unless there are unique circumstances. I dont see how our current situation fits that, and I damn well hope Tepper doesn't 

I don't disagree with it being a loser mentality, you rarely see successful franchises decide to go through a complete roster overhaul in a short period of time. Most take the prudent steps necessary over the course of years so that they don't turn into dumpster fires. 

I think completely rebuilding the roster in 2 years is pretty aggressive, especially WITHOUT a QB(a situation that may very well happen to us rebuilding or not). One thing you have to look at is how much of our core is going to be here in 2020 and 2021. How about this, give me a list of the players that you see being a part of this team in 2021. Here are the contracts for reference.  As you can see our core in 2021(not including anyone who might get extended in the interim) is a mixed bag. 

All that doom aside, I do think we can just simply retool this offseason and build a competitive team. Something that will be critical is drafting well, as we are going to need actual CONTRIBUTORS from these picks as our cap space is going to be tight. 

[Harbingers]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Me either. I see some parts that would be nice to have but nothing that I’d lose sleep over as core parts we don’t want to lose like Moore, Moton or CMC. I don’t want to lose any potential OL even Little and Daley because they could improve but all those guys are replaceable and I’d rather go comp pick crazy for 2021 than pay a lot of money to stay a little bit above crap.

We have 32 million right now to fill 9 defensive starter spots and retool an entire OL. Plus the QB situation and our entire depth outside of like 3 players. 

[CatfanMO]

XFL Panthers expansion team full of JAGS!

[AceBoogie]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ron Rivera said he wanted to coach for a winner.

It’s like he didn’t contribute to the losing here lol

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

It’s like he didn’t contribute to the losing here lol

I think he believes he didn't.

The general tone of Rivera's comments after his firing has been "wasn't my fault".

[1of10Charnatives]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I think he believes he didn't.

The general tone of Rivera's comments after his firing has been "wasn't my fault".

Man.

I think Rivera is a fine human being, but imagine the self delusion it takes to be HC of an NFL team for 8.5 years and take credit for it's successes and then claim the far more common mediocrity wasn't your fault.

[pantherj]

That's like shitting the bed and then saying you're ready for a higher quality mattress.

[CarolinaNCSU]

20 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

We have 32 million right now to fill 9 defensive starter spots and retool an entire OL. Plus the QB situation and our entire depth outside of like 3 players. 

9 defensive starters?  The hell? KK, Luke, Shaq, Reid, Donte, Burns at minimum are there and accounted for. 

Poe gets cut, saves 10 million.  Olsen retires, think that's 8-9, even cutting someone like Mike Davis weirdly saves 3 million. Without even getting into Gano, Cam, or others. That 32 million will easily be 50+, and those 9 defensive starters are more like finding 5.  If the team goes into rebuild mode, not like we'll even be signing big FA's to fill those spots anyway. Probably can slot in a couple draft picks as well.  I mean I get hyperbole is the flavor of the month right now, but 9 defensive starters on 32 million?