A Solution to the QB Dilemma

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I've already said I cool if he gets cut, obviously.  It's a matter of how Cincy plays their hand.  If they are comfortable with Finley as QB#2 and want to give Dalton the Rivera treatment by cutting ties early, then I'm all for it.  I just think they will try to get something for him first.  Any team interested will have to just wait.  How long, who knows?

Yeah but let's say he doesn't get cut. Why in the world would we trade for him versus just grabbing one of those other options for way, way, way less than $17.7 mil? I don't think there is going to be any market for a one year deal for Andy Dalton. Name a team that can afford that cap hit and would even be remotely interested. 

[davos]

18 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think in a few years Jimmy G is going to be another Andy Dalton journeyman QB that got overpaid. Dak is tettering on that ledge too. Wilson is a star but for every Wilson and Tom Brady there are 40 busted 2nd to 7th round drafted QB's. 

I also don't share the same rosy view of Allen as you do. I think he will settle at the low end of the journeyman QB scale(where he basically grades out performance wise) so I suspect he won't be a Panther in a couple of years. 

I do agree about the older guys wanting to start but to some extent their options are going to be limited by the market. The options for QB needy teams that are in "win now" mode are going to be limited and guys like Dalton and Rivers aren't going to be as high on them, I suspect. Then you have shitty spots like us that have upside(Cam's health) that can still pay and perhaps give a platform to show that you have some left in the tank. Of the bottom feeders messes, Carolina is one of the better options. 

I don't have a rosy view of him.  He's low level insurance. 

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

That only works if the QB is willing to do so.  Why, if you are Andy Dalton, would you do that?  Someone will come calling if the Bengals cut him.  Look at the Broncos, perhaps the Redskins, and several others who have questions about the starting QB and are notorious for pulling the trigger and throwing money in desperation at snake-oil solutions to the #1 spot on the depth chart.  Would you really sign for less to be behind a franchise icon, who, if healthy, you will always be behind when you could take your chances as a starter elsewhere.....without shining the icon's shoes?

Dalton is at a point where three things are likely to sway his decision: money, the chance to start, and maybe the chance at wearing a ring.  We aren't going to want to throw the money at him, if he is starting it is only until we find the next franchise QB (which could be six weeks or six years), and we aren't going to give him a chance at a ring next year, nor likely in 2021. 

Again, we are NOT just a QB away from winning.  As KungFuDude pointed out, not only do we have glaring weaknesses, but a good number of our solutions are becoming FAs and need to be either resigned or replaced.

5-11 was a pretty true indicator of this team.  Cam might have improved that somehow by a couple of games, at best.  But an awful defense and an awful OL is not the basis for stealing wins.  Teams most capable of snaring wins from the loss column do so because they are very solid at fundamentals (like blocking and tackling) and it holds them in games until they can do something to steal a win.  We didn't do the fundamentals very well this year.  We were good at watching people with the ball off in the distance, or watching DLs and LBs run by as they chased CMC or our QB.

I'm not going to argue any of that.  However, I went out of my way to say this was A solution, not the solution.  It was my intention to get a conversation going about the most important roster spot on a NFL team.  To this point it's been: Cam's cut or he's back.  Not exactly a glowing strategy or in depth discussion about this team moving forward among what I consider a pretty football intelligent fan base.

The whole *if healthy* qualifier is tenuous unto itself.  When will *if healthy* be determined?

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I'm not going to argue any of that.  However, I went out of my way to say this was A solution, not the solution.  It was my intention to get a conversation going about the most important roster spot on a NFL team.  To this point it's been: Cam's cut or he's back.  Not exactly a glowing strategy or in depth discussion about this team moving forward among what I consider a pretty football intelligent fan base.

The whole *if healthy* qualifier is tenuous unto itself.  When will *if healthy* be determined?

Well there were plenty on the Huddle last offseason calling for a veteran QB to be added due to Cam's health and the uncertainty with Heincke and Allen. The move, unfortunately, ended up being Will Grier. We have really never adequately addressed the backup QB situation since Derek Anderson left after the 2017 season. 

Given the Lisfranc injury recovery timetable, "if healthy" could be in a couple of months or it could be in July. There is no way to know at the moment. If the plan is to bring Cam back, the health question doesn't really go away, regardless. 

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well there were plenty on the Huddle last offseason calling for a veteran QB to be added due to Cam's health and the uncertainty with Heincke and Allen. The move, unfortunately, ended up being Will Grier. We have really never adequately addressed the backup QB situation since Derek Anderson left after the 2017 season. 

Yup, the Jordan Gross replacement strategy.  Day two and lower draft picks and JAG FAs.  I was wanting a solid FA QB too this past off season, but it din't happen.  But you know the Panthers never learn form history and are doomed to repeat their mistakes.

[45catfan]

17 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but let's say he doesn't get cut. Why in the world would we trade for him versus just grabbing one of those other options for way, way, way less than $17.7 mil? I don't think there is going to be any market for a one year deal for Andy Dalton. Name a team that can afford that cap hit and would even be remotely interested. 

Again, Cincy will wait for the phone to ring even though it probably never will.  I just hope we don't get nervous and grab a JAG QB before Cincy cuts him loose.  Mariota would be another I would entertain looking at.  I'm not interested in those guys on down that QB list.

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Again, Cincy will wait for the phone to ring even though it probably never will.  I just hope we don't get nervous and grab a JAG QB before Cincy cuts him loose.  Mariota would be another I would entertain looking at.  I'm not interested in those guys on down that QB list.

Mariota probably has a limited market so he might be an option. I would be curious to see how he fares behind our OL. He had a 13.5% sack rate this year with the Titans(the #32 team in Adjusted Sack Rate and tied for last in sacks allowed). However, if you look at the Pass Block Win Rate stats, Tennessee is actually #7 in the league. Makes me think that they are running on offense that has a lot of long developing routes that gets these guys sacked. 

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Mariota probably has a limited market so he might be an option. I would be curious to see how he fares behind our OL. He had a 13.5% sack rate this year with the Titans(the #32 team in Adjusted Sack Rate and tied for last in sacks allowed). However, if you look at the Pass Block Win Rate stats, Tennessee is actually #7 in the league. Makes me think that they are running on offense that has a lot of long developing routes that gets these guys sacked. 

If we get a WCO HC or at least an OC, he's got a shot at being successful.  Nobody will last behind this OL on long developing routes, not even Cam.

I'm kinda wishing we luck up in a Jake Delhomme type scenario. Could lightening strike twice?

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

If we get a WCO HC or at least an OC, he's got a shot at being successful.  Nobody will last behind this OL on long developing routes, not even Cam.

I'm kinda wishing we luck up in a Jake Delhomme type scenario. Could lightening strike twice?

Honestly, if you want a potential Jake, that would be Winston. Same mold of a gunslinger type QB, fiery and emotional. Much greater talent but with much more questionable decision making to go with it. Mariota is a lower ceiling guy, IMO but he is also a guy that you don't have to plan on questionable INT's as frequently. 

[45catfan]

11 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Honestly, if you want a potential Jake, that would be Winston. Same mold of a gunslinger type QB, fiery and emotional. Much greater talent but with much more questionable decision making to go with it. Mariota is a lower ceiling guy, IMO but he is also a guy that you don't have to plan on questionable INT's as frequently. 

The ironic thing is if we did bring in Mariota,  he'd trying to reverse what happened to him this year and what happened to Rodney Peete in 2003.   The backup comes in for a struggling starter, does well and the original starter is shown the door.  Mariota would try to "Delhomme" Cam.

I don't know, Jake was never the starting guy for the Saints, but they saw enough in him to keep retaining him as their backup until Jake had enough and wanted to hit FA for a CHANCE of a starting job.  Remember, Rodney initially beat out Jake for the starting job.  Just once he got yanked at halftime in the Jags game, Jake lit it up and never looked back.   Kinda like what Tannehill did to Mariota this season.

[mc52beast]

I want to live in the universe where Dalton beats out a healthy Cam Newton cuz that universe must be full of gumdrops and rainbows.

seriously though, we do need to bring in a vet. Look at what happened when your two backups are both developmental projects. But it doesn’t have to be a guy with a 17mil cap hit. And we sure as he’ll can’t afford to give up a draft pick.

[45catfan]

See the Titans solidified their QB situation on a 1-year flier deal on Tannehill for a whopping $1.8 million.  We couldn't get so lucky.

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

No chance. He’s won one and could easily win another this year or next year (they have a huge incoming class of DL/OL). He’s also from GA. Being in Charlotte would be as close to home as he’d likely get (Atlanta isn’t getting #1 pick).

Luck’s a unique person. Assuming anyone else would do similar is silly. 

And you are cool winning 1 or 2 games to get the #1 pick?

[Panthercougar68]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

And you are cool winning 1 or 2 games to get the #1 pick?

I've come to terms that it might be a possibility.