A Solution to the QB Dilemma

[OriginalPantherDan]

Good Lord, someone mentioned Jameis Winston. Dude just became the first member of the 5000/500 club...5000 yards and 500 INTs in one season. No thanks. 

[45catfan]

Also, we know Dak isn't going anywhere and Bridgewater is Brees' heir apparent.  He'll get re-signed.

[davos]

I'd rather just keep Cam, sign someone like Nick Mullens or Nate Sudfield to compete with Allen. 

Maybe take a stab at Jamie Newman or Jalen Hurts in the mid rounds as a shot in the dark; you never know. 

If we decide to get rid of Cam, I would still target the same crowd.  Maybe Bridgewater but don't waste money on these over the hill goobers like Rivers, Dalton, Mariota, etc.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Dude, this was exactly what I was trying to get accomplished and you actually enhanced the thread!  I think Tepper will almost have to bring Cam back due to the backlash of his staunch supporters if traded or cut.  I don't want a placeholder #2 vet.  I want someone "like" Fitz-magic that could compete for the #1 and even if loses the starter competition can play to #1 QB level if called upon.  I know this pisses of the hardcore Cam base, but he needs competition.  If they are so confident in him, whats the harm?  They are cool with competition at every other roster spot, why not QB?

Bortles I wouldn't mind, but I still would lean to Dalton if he were available.  Keenum is what Allen will be in a few years with more devlopment.  We have that guy already.

I think you are inventing a scenario that isn't the case. Any owner that makes a decision on an elite QB based on what the fan backlash would be is immediately a terrible owner. We aren't going to make a decision on Cam based on that, we are going to make it on whether he will be healthy next season and what our path is moving forward. A lot of that isn't going to be known until we have revamped our front office and coaching staff. After all, we are going to be molding the team to the new vision of the franchise, which may or may not include Cam(both in 2020 or moving forward). 

You aren't "pissing off the Cam base" but you are making some difficult to understand arguments about "competing with Cam." None of those QB's on that list can compete with Cam when he is healthy. None of them. Could they help him elevate his level of competitiveness? Maybe but I really don't think that has been a question mark for him(like say, Brees early in his career). Regardless, we would be making a mistake to not bring in a veteran QB because that is what has hurt us the past two years when Cam couldn't stay healthy. I think you are focusing too much on getting players to compete with Cam and not enough on the fact that if Cam isn't healthy, we don't have a QB that is a capable NFL starter. That is a huge, huge problem.

Now, for the guys you are talking about, I'd take Fitzpatrick in a heartbeat. Bortles is a hard pass. His heart really isn't in football and he is not a guy I would say is much better(although much more talented) than Allen. Keenum is a great option. Typical journeyman QB, can string together some wins if we have a good team around him and doesn't have the clear cut issues that Allen does. 

 

[GoPanthers123]

There is only one solution. Any QBs worth a damn will be gone by the time we pick, so we go with Cam/Allen and invest in linemen and secondary.  

[45catfan]

Just now, davos said:

I'd rather just keep Cam, sign someone like Nick Mullens or Nate Sudfield to compete with Allen. 

Maybe take a stab at Jamie Newman or Jalen Hurts in the mid rounds as a shot in the dark; you never know. 

If we decide to get rid of Cam, I would still target the same crowd.  Maybe Bridgewater but don't waste money on these over the hill goobers like Rivers, Dalton, Mariota, etc.

Bridgewater is not leaving the Saints.  They are not stupid.  They know what they have in the pipeline there.

So Cam, Allen, Allen-esque and  a rookie developmental pick is our depth chart for 2020? Sorry, I'm not feeling too great about that lineup.

 

[davos]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

Bridgewater is not leaving the Saints.  They are not stupid.  They know what they have in the pipeline there.

So Cam, Allen, Allen-esque and  a rookie developmental pick is our depth chart for 2020? Sorry, I'm not feeling too great about that lineup.

 

Sudfeld and Mullens are better than Rivera and Dalton at this stage in their careers. 

I'd rather take stabs at guys with longer term potential and actual ceilings and not old timers with diminishing returns and crappy track records.

[MurkN]

 

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, OriginalPantherDan said:

Good Lord, someone mentioned Jameis Winston. Dude just became the first member of the 5000/500 club...5000 yards and 500 INTs in one season. No thanks. 

His INT percentages haven't been much different than other typical gun slinger QB's like Rivers or Favre. The big spike this year had a lot to do with being in that Bruce Arians kind of offense. It puts him in situations where he is making poorer decisions a lot more easily. He is absolutely the most talented QB in that group and it's not even close. He is as capable of marching offenses up and down the field as he is throwing crippling INT's. As I said, he's part of that young QB reclamation project group which warrant a look at the right price/right situation. 

Ask yourself this, would you rather have Winston step in to attempt to win a game for us, or Kyle Allen/Will Grier?

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Bridgewater is not leaving the Saints.  They are not stupid.  They know what they have in the pipeline there.

So Cam, Allen, Allen-esque and  a rookie developmental pick is our depth chart for 2020? Sorry, I'm not feeling too great about that lineup.

 

That may not be up to them though. We haven't seen the market for Bridgewater yet.

[davos]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

That may not be up to them though. We haven't seen the market for Bridgewater yet.

It's pretty clear he won't be with the Saints if anything.  They're not going to pay a backup QB $18 mil/yr when Brees is already taking up like 25%+ of that team's salary. I expect somewhere like LAC for him.

[heel31ok]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

Why not add Rivers in the mix too?

Rivers as a backup on the cheap...

Yeah that would get us through next season...

 

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, davos said:

I'd rather just keep Cam, sign someone like Nick Mullens or Nate Sudfield to compete with Allen. 

Maybe take a stab at Jamie Newman or Jalen Hurts in the mid rounds as a shot in the dark; you never know. 

If we decide to get rid of Cam, I would still target the same crowd.  Maybe Bridgewater but don't waste money on these over the hill goobers like Rivers, Dalton, Mariota, etc.

It's not really wasting money on a one year deal. That's what we are talking about, a gap filler for one year as we are doing a final evaluation of Cam Newton. Mullens and Sudfield are not better substantially better than Allen, who proved that he cannot sustain winning for long stretches. Rivers and Dalton can absolutely win games and have for a long time period. Mariota is a talent gamble, just like Winston. 

Bridgewater would be ideal but I am of the opinion that he will get a multi-year deal from someone or he will stick with New Orleans in the hopes of being the heir apparent. 

[45catfan]

9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think you are inventing a scenario that isn't the case. Any owner that makes a decision on an elite QB based on what the fan backlash would be is immediately a terrible owner. We aren't going to make a decision on Cam based on that, we are going to make it on whether he will be healthy next season and what our path is moving forward. A lot of that isn't going to be known until we have revamped our front office and coaching staff. After all, we are going to be molding the team to the new vision of the franchise, which may or may not include Cam(both in 2020 or moving forward). 

You aren't "pissing off the Cam base" but you are making some difficult to understand arguments about "competing with Cam." None of those QB's on that list can compete with Cam when he is healthy. None of them. Could they help him elevate his level of competitiveness? Maybe but I really don't think that has been a question mark for him(like say, Brees early in his career). Regardless, we would be making a mistake to not bring in a veteran QB because that is what has hurt us the past two years when Cam couldn't stay healthy. I think you are focusing too much on getting players to compete with Cam and not enough on the fact that if Cam isn't healthy, we don't have a QB that is a capable NFL starter. That is a huge, huge problem.

Now, for the guys you are talking about, I'd take Fitzpatrick in a heartbeat. Bortles is a hard pass. His heart really isn't in football and he is not a guy I would say is much better(although much more talented) than Allen. Keenum is a great option. Typical journeyman QB, can string together some wins if we have a good team around him and doesn't have the clear cut issues that Allen does. 

 

Tepper absolutely will have to factor in the fan base when deciding on Cam.  Is the ultimate factor?  of course not, but he knows Cam has been the face of this franchise and casting him off like last week's left overs will sour a large amount of the fan base.  That part of the business he has to consider too.  Prospects of empty seats to start the season is not a great proposition.

Lastly, Cam is not 2015 Cam anymore, not even close.  I think competition will do him some good even if it's a token challenge to his starting role next season assuming he's still here.  At any rate, to give him a run for the starter's role, it can't be some random JAG FA journeyman.  If he loses (an upset) well we know he has lost "it" and if not (most likely) we have a VERY solid #2 in case he gets hit with the injury bug again.

 If the team does part ways him, obviously they didn't feel Cam 2015 was going to suddenly re-emerge. I also think if he is retained to play one more season, the idea that the team was even pondering moving on from him says he should be the unquestioned #1 is a bit ironic.