A Solution to the QB Dilemma

[TheRed]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

By two whole years?  We are not talking about 10 years.   Yup, former MVP.  Hasn't looked anywhere near that level since, even when healthy.

Again, Cam or bust.  Great plan.

Wait so you discount the validity of Newton's accomplishments yet you want to bring in Dalton who is not only older/also expensive and has won how many playoff games again? Zero?

Are you aware of Andy's playoff record? 0-4 with 1 touchdown and 6 interceptions.

[45catfan]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Case Keenum or any number of former starting QB's that will be available in 2020 free agency(which will likely already include Andy Dalton). 

If we keep Cam for the 2020 season, we will know whether to move on in 2021(with a new QB) or extend him. It really seems like a pretty simple plan, TBH. If we don't keep Cam for 2020, then bringing in Dalton makes even less sense. At that point you are looking for a young QB in the draft.

Burrow will be gone and likely Tua.  You feel that comfortable with Herbert?  I see bust written all over that guy. Eason is a JAG.  The drop off after Burrow and Tua is staggering.  Take about wasting draft capital, throwing mud at wall is a horrible play with the #7 pick.

[TheRed]

Imagine being silly enough to sit around huffing and puffing about a "Cam or bust crowd" yet also somehow envision Andy Dalton as the answer to our prayers lmao.

[Happy Panther]

14 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I have yet to see any other solutions other than Cam's the man in 2020!  A very strategic plan guys...

We have discussed drafting Tua ad nauseam

[45catfan]

4 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Wait so you discount the validity of Newton's accomplishments yet you want to bring in Dalton who is not only older/also expensive and has won how many playoff games again? Zero?

Are you aware of Andy's playoff record? 0-4 with 1 touchdown and 6 interceptions.

He's made the playoffs, you have to be accomplished to do that in itself.

I figured the Cam crowd would come out in full force on this one, but objective fans realize Cam, Allen, Grier and maybe a mid-round QB pick is a tenuous proposition next season at best.

[t96]

33 minutes ago, chknwing said:

Carolina doesnt have a QB dilemma.  Cam is the QB.  And will be the QB in 2020.  A new HC and OC will reignite the offense around Cam.

I wish that were the case but that’s not the reality. The reality is Cam hasn’t played at a high level since the first part of 2017 and even then his throwing shoulder did not look the same as it did in his prime. He’s lost mobility due to leg injuries, gotten smaller due to his diet, and may have a bum throwing shoulder. If that’s the case then he won’t be our solution at QB going forward. I hope that he can overcome all of that and get back to himself for us, but the odds of that are probably at absolute best 50/50.

[kungfoodude]

How about this, and I am not trying to derail your thread @45catfan but let's take a look at some projected free agent QB's for those who do want to bring in a veteran backup in the "Cam returns in 2020" scenario. I'm not going to include guys like Brees or Brady, because they are unlikely to consider being backups and I am not going to include projected cuts like Dalton because they are not yet available. 

Eli Manning	QB	Giants		UFA	25%	39	$21,000,000	$36,500,000
Philip Rivers	QB	Chargers		UFA	97.3%	39	$20,812,500	$37,500,000
Case Keenum	QB	Redskins		UFA	44.3%	32	$7,500,000	$7,500,000
Teddy Bridgewater	QB	Saints		Void	39.2%	28	$7,250,000	$7,250,000
Ryan Tannehill	QB	Titans		UFA	61.8%	32	$7,000,000	$6,750,000
Jameis Winston	QB	Buccaneers		UFA	99.1%	26	$6,337,819	$25,351,277
Marcus Mariota	QB	Titans		UFA	38.2%	27	$6,053,494	$24,213,974
Chase Daniel	QB	Bears		UFA	12.9%	34	$5,000,000	$7,000,000
Chad Henne	QB	Chiefs		UFA	0%	35	$3,350,000	$5,115,000
Colt McCoy	QB	Redskins		UFA	6.6%	34	$3,250,000	$2,000,000
Drew Stanton	QB	Browns		UFA	0%	36	$3,250,000	$4,150,000
Nate Sudfeld	QB	Eagles		UFA	0%	27	$3,095,000	$0
AJ McCarron	QB	Texans		UFA	0.4%	30	$3,000,000	$2,500,000
Josh McCown	QB	Eagles		UFA	1.4%	41	$2,000,000	$2,000,000
Trevor Siemian	QB	Jets		UFA	2.1%	29	$2,000,000	$1,000,000
Mike Glennon	QB	Raiders		UFA	2.4%	31	$1,950,000	$1,400,000
Brett Hundley	QB	Cardinals		UFA	3.5%	27	$1,875,000	$750,000
Blaine Gabbert	QB	Buccaneers		UFA	0%	31	$1,600,000	$500,000
Matt Moore	QB	Chiefs		UFA	16.9%	36	$1,030,000	$0
Joe Webb	QB	Texans		UFA	0%	34	$1,020,000	$90,000
Blake Bortles	QB	Rams		UFA	1.1%	29	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
Sean Mannion	QB	Vikings		UFA	0.5%	28	$895,000	$90,000
Geno Smith	QB	Seahawks		UFA	0%	30	$870,000	$0
David Fales	QB	Jets		UFA	0.8%	30	$805,000	$0
Dak Prescott	QB	Cowboys		UFA	99.5%	27	$680,848	$383,392
Nathan Peterman	QB	Raiders		ERFA	0%	26	$645,000	$0
Matt Simms	QB	Falcons		RFA	0%	32	$645,000	$0
Jeff Driskel	QB	Lions		UFA	21.4%	27	$645,000	$0
Brandon Allen	QB	Broncos		RFA	18.7%	28	$645,000	$0
Cooper Rush	QB	Cowboys		RFA	0.5%	27	$556,667	$5,000
Taysom Hill	QB	Saints		RFA	20.5%	30	$556,667	$5,000
Nick Mullens	QB	49ers		ERFA	0.7%	25	$525,000	$0
Josh Woodrum	QB	Redskins		ERFA	0%	28	$495,000	$0
Kyle Allen	QB	Panthers		ERFA	79.5%	24	$487,500	$0
Logan Woodside	QB	Titans		ERFA	0%	25	$136,000	$0

 

So, anyone on this list standout as a potential to bring in? I'd love Tannehill but he is both unlikely to leave Tennessee(who I think will lock him up long term) and unlikely to be cheap. Similarly, I'd take Keenum or Bridgewater but I think the price may be too high. Outside of those guys, really only Mariota or Winston stand out. Both are younger reclamation projects that could be enticed by a short prove it deal, provided that they don't get a guaranteed deals with longer terms from other teams. It gets pretty thin after those guys and I don't see much that is definitively better than Kyle Allen. Maybe Matt Moore?  

[My Goodness My Guinness]

If they cut him then heck yes I'd sign Dalton. Better than Allen or Grier and could potentially allow Cam to rest into the season to try and maximize the chance that he can get healthy. 

Him or Fitzmagic. Dude's 38 and still willed the Dolphins to a 5-11 record. 

[45catfan]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Imagine being silly enough to sit around huffing and puffing about a "Cam or bust crowd" yet also somehow envision Andy Dalton as the answer to our prayers lmao.

Scared a vet QB (Dalton or other) may give Cam a run for his money?

[TheRed]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Scared a vet QB (Dalton or other) may give Cam a run for his money?

I don't see any of the potential vets that will be available being the guy we can build around even in the short term.

If Cam is done I'm for making any moves necessary for us to draft the future guy.

You are really bad at this, but it's amusing at least.

[OriginalPantherDan]

Keep Cam, hand him the reins, and see what the Panthers have. If he performs like good Cam, all is well and he gets an extension here. If he gets hurt or is terrible Cam, then the season ends abysmally, the Panthers draft high and grab a new starting QB. There’s your Occam’s Razor answer to next year’s QB question. 

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

How about this, and I am not trying to derail your thread @45catfan but let's take a look at some projected free agent QB's for those who do want to bring in a veteran backup in the "Cam returns in 2020" scenario. I'm not going to include guys like Brees or Brady, because they are unlikely to consider being backups and I am not going to include projected cuts like Dalton because they are not yet available. 

Eli Manning	QB	Giants		UFA	25%	39	$21,000,000	$36,500,000
Philip Rivers	QB	Chargers		UFA	97.3%	39	$20,812,500	$37,500,000
Case Keenum	QB	Redskins		UFA	44.3%	32	$7,500,000	$7,500,000
Teddy Bridgewater	QB	Saints		Void	39.2%	28	$7,250,000	$7,250,000
Ryan Tannehill	QB	Titans		UFA	61.8%	32	$7,000,000	$6,750,000
Jameis Winston	QB	Buccaneers		UFA	99.1%	26	$6,337,819	$25,351,277
Marcus Mariota	QB	Titans		UFA	38.2%	27	$6,053,494	$24,213,974
Chase Daniel	QB	Bears		UFA	12.9%	34	$5,000,000	$7,000,000
Chad Henne	QB	Chiefs		UFA	0%	35	$3,350,000	$5,115,000
Colt McCoy	QB	Redskins		UFA	6.6%	34	$3,250,000	$2,000,000
Drew Stanton	QB	Browns		UFA	0%	36	$3,250,000	$4,150,000
Nate Sudfeld	QB	Eagles		UFA	0%	27	$3,095,000	$0
AJ McCarron	QB	Texans		UFA	0.4%	30	$3,000,000	$2,500,000
Josh McCown	QB	Eagles		UFA	1.4%	41	$2,000,000	$2,000,000
Trevor Siemian	QB	Jets		UFA	2.1%	29	$2,000,000	$1,000,000
Mike Glennon	QB	Raiders		UFA	2.4%	31	$1,950,000	$1,400,000
Brett Hundley	QB	Cardinals		UFA	3.5%	27	$1,875,000	$750,000
Blaine Gabbert	QB	Buccaneers		UFA	0%	31	$1,600,000	$500,000
Matt Moore	QB	Chiefs		UFA	16.9%	36	$1,030,000	$0
Joe Webb	QB	Texans		UFA	0%	34	$1,020,000	$90,000
Blake Bortles	QB	Rams		UFA	1.1%	29	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
Sean Mannion	QB	Vikings		UFA	0.5%	28	$895,000	$90,000
Geno Smith	QB	Seahawks		UFA	0%	30	$870,000	$0
David Fales	QB	Jets		UFA	0.8%	30	$805,000	$0
Dak Prescott	QB	Cowboys		UFA	99.5%	27	$680,848	$383,392
Nathan Peterman	QB	Raiders		ERFA	0%	26	$645,000	$0
Matt Simms	QB	Falcons		RFA	0%	32	$645,000	$0
Jeff Driskel	QB	Lions		UFA	21.4%	27	$645,000	$0
Brandon Allen	QB	Broncos		RFA	18.7%	28	$645,000	$0
Cooper Rush	QB	Cowboys		RFA	0.5%	27	$556,667	$5,000
Taysom Hill	QB	Saints		RFA	20.5%	30	$556,667	$5,000
Nick Mullens	QB	49ers		ERFA	0.7%	25	$525,000	$0
Josh Woodrum	QB	Redskins		ERFA	0%	28	$495,000	$0
Kyle Allen	QB	Panthers		ERFA	79.5%	24	$487,500	$0
Logan Woodside	QB	Titans		ERFA	0%	25	$136,000	$0

 

So, anyone on this list standout as a potential to bring in? I'd love Tannehill but he is both unlikely to leave Tennessee(who I think will lock him up long term) and unlikely to be cheap. Similarly, I'd take Keenum or Bridgewater but I think the price may be too high. Outside of those guys, really only Mariota or Winston stand out. Both are younger reclamation projects that could be enticed by a short prove it deal, provided that they don't get a guaranteed deals with longer terms from other teams. It gets pretty thin after those guys and I don't see much that is definitively better than Kyle Allen. Maybe Matt Moore?  

Dude, this was exactly what I was trying to get accomplished and you actually enhanced the thread!  I think Tepper will almost have to bring Cam back due to the backlash of his staunch supporters if traded or cut.  I don't want a placeholder #2 vet.  I want someone "like" Fitz-magic that could compete for the #1 and even if loses the starter competition can play to #1 QB level if called upon.  I know this pisses of the hardcore Cam base, but he needs competition.  If they are so confident in him, whats the harm?  They are cool with competition at every other roster spot, why not QB?

Bortles I wouldn't mind, but I still would lean to Dalton if he were available.  Keenum is what Allen will be in a few years with more devlopment.  We have that guy already.

[45catfan]

7 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I don't see any of the potential vets that will be available being the guy we can build around even in the short term.

If Cam is done I'm for making any moves necessary for us to draft the future guy.

You are really bad at this, but it's amusing at least.

Tanking in 2020 too because THAT guy isn't there for us this draft?  A true fan.  That would be glorious  if Lawrence decided go back to Clemson for his senior year like Andrew Luck did and we tanked for no reason.

[kungfoodude]

12 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Burrow will be gone and likely Tua.  You feel that comfortable with Herbert?  I see bust written all over that guy. Eason is a JAG.  The drop off after Burrow and Tua is staggering.  Take about wasting draft capital, throwing mud at wall is a horrible play with the #7 pick.

If you aren't sold(as a franchise/coach/GM) on the options available at #7 then you probably take a logical pick(OL/DL/etc) and potentially draft a QB later. If you aren't sold on any of those options then it's probably time to evaluate if it's time for a Carolina firesale and 3-4 years of rebuilding. But, we also can just stick with Cam in 2020 and sign a veteran QB to back him up, which seems like the most logical option to me. If Cam gets hurt again, we have a back up that can steady the team and bail us out from losing 6+ straight games like we have the past couple of years. 

Or, depending on what the strategy is, we could simply bank it all on Cam with Allen backing him up under the guise of "Cam or bust 2020" being simultaneously the best way for getting us a high enough draft pick to land an elite QB prospect in the 2021 draft if Cam goes down. I think that is largely a fan based notion, because I don't think most coaches or players would ever buy into that idea willingly. 

Like I said, I expect us to keep Cam in 2020 and only use that pick on a QB if one drops to us or someone falls in love with one of the options available(front office, coaching staff, owner, etc). If not, I'd expect to see us either sign a veteran QB or draft another young QB. I'd personally much prefer getting a veteran in here.