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HeyVern! (The Butler Dilemma)

MHS831

By MHS831,
in Carolina Panthers

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Don't get suckered in by contract year play!  You have to look at his entire body of work. Is it worth another deal?  Also contribute those numbers to the switch to the 3-4.  In a 4-3 a DT is simply asked to push the pocket.   The entire team's sack numbers are up, but yet we are 31st in run D.  Don't get distracted by shiny things.

I was going to say this exact same thing. Always, ALWAYS be wary of contract year play. About the most I would offer him is a relatively cheap, one year "prove it" deal. Other than that, let someone else overpay him on a 3-4 year deal and then watch him not produce until the last year of that deal. 

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Rags Mentor

Rags

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

No offense because you did not start this concept, but I think not getting the 5th year was a wake up call for Butler and he played with a chip on his shoulder--and the injury to KK and later Poe gave him the opportunity to develop. 

RR sucked at developing talent--for example, Moton should have played sooner.  Burns?  since he had some veterans that were playing well (Addison and Irvin) do you practically eliminate his reps?  What about Scarlett and Reggie Bonnefon?  Ian Thomas? 

Now many on this board want to bring in a new LT because Little and Daley sucked as rookies.  Please show me the research that suggests recent rookie LTs prosper? Most all suck.  Some want Humphries because he started showing promise during his fourth year---and he was a first rounder.  No--you fix the Center and LG spots and you develop your investment at LT.  We have something to work with, and Huddlers want to bury them on the bench.  Part of coaching is developing the future, not saving your arse each week.  Cam's health is probably due to RR's "live for the moment" mentality.  I am afraid that CMC will have a short career for the same reason.

That wasn't a shot specifically at Vern, but that's a part of the human condition to get complacent and contract year play is a real thing. Doug Martin recently comes to mind.

That said when you only have 1 out of 4 really strong season, you still don't want to buy high.

 

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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He definitely be stepped up this year. Just don't know how sustainable it is. Trade him for a mid round pick and be done with him. He's got first round talent, apparently, but just not enough there to want to extend him. And then that jackass moment against the colts just makes me want to keep him around even less. 

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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Unless we are switching back to the 4-3, I would pass and collect a comp pick. He is not a good option in the 3-4 , too ineffective against the run and eating blocks. Even in the 4-3, he would be a backup option. I'm happy the guy finally started to produce but it's not enough to give him more than backup money even if we do revert to 4-3.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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53 minutes ago, rayzor said:

He definitely be stepped up this year. Just don't know how sustainable it is. Trade him for a mid round pick and be done with him. He's got first round talent, apparently, but just not enough there to want to extend him. And then that jackass moment against the colts just makes me want to keep him around even less. 

His contract is up after Sunday, so I don't think trading him is an option. 

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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3 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Don't get suckered in by contract year play!  You have to look at his entire body of work. Is it worth another deal?  Also contribute those numbers to the switch to the 3-4.  In a 4-3 a DT is simply asked to push the pocket.   The entire team's sack numbers are up, but yet we are 31st in run D.  Don't get distracted by shiny things.

Exactly. I don't want players that only perform when their job or salary are on the line. He has been poo for way longer than he hasn't been.

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