Falcons GM and HC will return in 2020

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

To be fair, the Falcons have always had our number.  That's even prior to Rivera.  Its League-wide though, certain teams simply have another team's number.  Unfortunately, the Falcons have ours. 

Yeah, still not our worst percentage all-time(although the team we have lost to more than any other). These are the teams we have a losing record to all-time:

Minnesota Vikings          6    8    0    .429
Philadelphia Eagles        5    7    0    .417
Washington Redskins    6    9    0    .400
Chicago Bears                4    6    0    .400
Atlanta Falcons          18    32    0    .360        
Green Bay Packers      6    10    0    .375
Dallas Cowboys             5    9    0    .357        
Miami Dolphins             2    4    0    .333
Kansas City Chiefs       2    4    0    .333        
Seattle Seahawks       4    10    0    .286
Buffalo Bills                   2    5    0    .286    
Denver Broncos            1    5    0    .167    
Pittsburgh Steelers       1    6    0    .143

 

[steven8989]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Payton.

I don't think his overall record against Rivera is as good as Quinn's but his success rate over the past few years has been enough that I count him. Especially given that Payton is regularly in the playoffs and we're... not.

Well after Sunday Saints will have won 6 out of last 7. Because if they would have beat us last game last year if they didn't rest players. I would say looks like everyone in the South owns us right now. Hell TB is even kicking our ass now.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Payton.

I don't think his overall record against Rivera is as good as Quinn's but his success rate over the past few years has been enough that I count him. Especially given that Payton is regularly in the playoffs and we're... not.

10-8 record versus Rivera as Panthers head coach. That doesn't make him another "owner" IMO. Pretty close to a coin flip. 

[steven8989]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

10-8 record versus Rivera as Panthers head coach. That doesn't make him another "owner" IMO. Pretty close to a coin flip. 

Look at last 4-5 years except for the 2015 year. Saints and Falcons own us. 

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, steven8989 said:

Oh I know Quinn is better just saying Rivera would always coach against us different and hate to face him twice a year.

I honestly think we'd beat the brakes off him over time. Remember, he is a guy that isn't innovative and would just beat his head against the wall. If we get any sort of coach who has the ability to adjust or adapt, he'd get fried. 

[kungfoodude]

Just now, steven8989 said:

Look at last 4-5 years except for the 2015 year. Saints and Falcons own us. 

Yeah but you are talking trends versus actual all-time record. That would mean that Ron Rivera owned Sean Payton(for the first half of his career here). The truth is, it's pretty close to a coin flip. Quinn on the other hand, 100% ownership.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

10-8 record versus Rivera as Panthers head coach. That doesn't make him another "owner" IMO. Pretty close to a coin flip. 

One of those wins was the Kyle Allen game last year. No way in hell I'm counting that.

Prior to that game, you've got to go back to 2016 to find a game where I feel like we legitimately beat them, and even that year we split. Plus they beat us three times in 2017.

Basically, since Gettleman's departure, they've owned us.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

One of those wins was the Kyle Allen game last year. No way in hell I'm counting that.

Prior to that game, you've got to go back to 2016 to find a game where I feel like we legitimately beat them, and even that year we split. Plus they beat us three times in 2017.

Basically, since Gettleman's departure, they've owned us.

I mean, listen, if we are going to push "situational wins" then I am sure we can make plenty of arguments on either side for that. The overall RESULTS are what they are, 10-8. 

Also, we were 5-5 versus them under Gettleman so it isn't like he "owned" the Saints.

[45catfan]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, still not our worst percentage all-time(although the team we have lost to more than any other). These are the teams we have a losing record to all-time:

Minnesota Vikings          6    8    0    .429
Philadelphia Eagles        5    7    0    .417
Washington Redskins    6    9    0    .400
Chicago Bears                4    6    0    .400
Atlanta Falcons          18    32    0    .360        
Green Bay Packers      6    10    0    .375
Dallas Cowboys             5    9    0    .357        
Miami Dolphins             2    4    0    .333
Kansas City Chiefs       2    4    0    .333        
Seattle Seahawks       4    10    0    .286
Buffalo Bills                   2    5    0    .286    
Denver Broncos            1    5    0    .167    
Pittsburgh Steelers       1    6    0    .143

 

I realize percentage-wise there are teams with a better winning percentage, but that's due to a lack of overall games.  If you look most of the rest are AFC teams while the Packers, Cowboys and Seahawks have had steady organizations/teams for years while we continuously are up and down.  A 14-game deficit will take a decade or more of solid Panthers teams to make up and the Falcons have been less than stellar during much of that stretch.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I realize percentage-wise there are teams with a better winning percentage, but that's due to a lack of overall games.  If you look most of the rest are AFC teams while the Packers, Cowboys and Seahawks have had steady organizations/teams for years while we continuously are up and down.  A 14-game deficit will take a decade or more of solid Panthers teams to make up and the Falcons have been less than stellar during much of that stretch.

Yeah it will take a while to dig out of the Atlanta hole, without a doubt. We could definitely get two back if we make a good head coaching hire and a good decision at QB this offseason, however. Quinn doesn't have his favorite win padding coach here anymore. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, listen, if we are going to push "situational wins" then I am sure we can make plenty of arguments on either side for that. The overall RESULTS are what they are, 10-8. 

Also, we were 5-5 versus them under Gettleman so it isn't like he "owned" the Saints.

But they didn't own us then either. Over the last three years it's a different story.

Three times in a single season and only one loss outside of a fluke game over the past three seasons is pretty convincing to me.

 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

But they didn't own us then either. Over the last three years it's a different story.

Three times in a single season and only one loss outside of a fluke game over the past three seasons is pretty convincing to me.

 

Yeah but that is just you putting your personal feelings ahead of the actual facts. If the statement was, "Who owned Ron Rivera the most over the past three seasons in the NFC South?" then your response would be valid. But to say Sean Payton OWNED Ron Rivera SOLELY based on the last three years? That is pretty much cherry picking statistics. 

And, also, if you want to measure who owned Ron Rivera over the past three years, the list is going to be pretty damn long. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but that is just you putting your personal feelings ahead of the actual facts. If the statement was, "Who owned Ron Rivera the most over the past three seasons in the NFC South?" then your response would be valid. But to say Sean Payton OWNED Ron Rivera SOLELY based on the last three years? That is pretty much cherry picking statistics. 

And, also, if you want to measure who owned Ron Rivera over the past three years, the list is going to be pretty damn long. 

Which is what I originally said.

Heck, outside of the Gettleman years, Rivera was owned by a pretty solid portion of the league.

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Which is what I originally said.

Heck, outside of the Gettleman years, Rivera was owned by a pretty solid portion of the league.

Quote

Quinn pretty much owned Rivera.

Granted, Rivera's got a couple of owners. Unfortunately for us, two of them coached in the NFC South.

No, you didn't. There is no qualifier in this statement. You just say he had two owners in the NFC South. 

Rivera was owned by opposing coaches during the Gettleman years too, so trying to interject that argument is really just trying to shift the subject. 

I don't mind that you may try and pitch your take as one based on your emotions about the event but that was not your original statement. If you meant it to be a recency biased argument, you need to at least add that period as a qualifier. I would have never even bothered arguing that point.