PFF video on Gries first start. Surprise!

[LiQuiD]

23 hours ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

He played one game, and he is on the worst team in the NFL.  And yes, we are currently the worst team in the league.  

The cart is so far ahead of the horse on this one that it's over the horizon.

[45catfan]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

3/15 with 3 INT's beyond 10 yards. OUCH

And 0-for on sideline passes.  I remember when Grier was drafted, questions about Will's arm strength were raised and Hurney said Will had plenty of arm strength.  When you get all your down field throws picked off because they lack zip and obviously uncomfortable throwing to the sidelines, there is an issue.  Can that be fixed simply with more in-game snaps?  I'm not sure.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

And 0-for on sideline passes.  I remember when Grier was drafted, questions about Will's arm strength were raised and Hurney said Will had plenty of arm strength.  When you get all your down field throws picked off because they lack zip and obviously uncomfortable throwing to the sidelines, there is an issue.  Can that be fixed simply with more in-game snaps?  I'm not sure.

Yeah, I was in the "WTF are you doing drafting this guy in the third" crowd. It makes for a good story to have the hometown guy come in, but only if he is going to be a legitimate NFL player. I still question that. 

I still think he has better pocket presence than Kyle does(low bar to hit, admittedly) but that is probably the only thing he did better than Kyle. 

[DeAngelo Beason]

9 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Still your subjective expectation and not an objective measure. Yes I understand teams do not play at the same level every week all season, I don’t know anyone who thinks this is the way it works, but it was asserted that we are the worst team in the league right now and literally nothing was offered besides the poster’s subjective opinion to support the assertion.

I'm not here to look up stats and measurements for you.  If you wish to rebut, feel free.  Here are a few talking points that cannot be debated that support my case, however. 

 

We have the second worst ranked run defense, and 20th ranked pass defense (#23 ranked overall)

We were manhandled by the Redskins, who are considered to be one of the very worst teams in the league.

We were massacred twice by the Falcons, who are considered to be one of the very worst teams in the league.

We were decimated by the Colts, who are an average (at BEST) team.

We are in the bottom half of the league in every offensive category except rushing, where we only rank 14.

 

All of these statistics become much more damning when you factor in where these rankings were in week 8 vs where they are now.  We were not the worst team in the league in week 8.  Right now, we are the worst team in the league.  Period.  Objective, subjective, I don't really give a fug.  It's obvious to anyone with two eyes and a pea for a brain bouncing around in their skull.

[45catfan]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I was in the "WTF are you doing drafting this guy in the third" crowd. It makes for a good story to have the hometown guy come in, but only if he is going to be a legitimate NFL player. I still question that. 

I still think he has better pocket presence than Kyle does(low bar to hit, admittedly) but that is probably the only thing he did better than Kyle. 

Marty keep's his crushes such a secret that I nailed the Burns and Grier picks in my final mock.  Honestly, I wanted other players, but was nearly certain he was going that way.  Obviously moving up for Little screwed up my 2nd round and 3a picks.  Hurney bought into the media chatter about drafting a developmental guy at QB because we never do.  He scouted Grier, fell in love...let it be known as much and the rest is history.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I'm not here to look up stats and measurements for you.  If you wish to rebut, feel free.  Here are a few talking points that cannot be debated that support my case, however. 

 

We have the second worst ranked run defense, and 20th ranked pass defense (#23 ranked overall)

We were manhandled by the Redskins, who are considered to be one of the very worst teams in the league.

We were massacred twice by the Falcons, who are considered to be one of the very worst teams in the league.

We were decimated by the Colts, who are an average (at BEST) team.

We are in the bottom half of the league in every offensive category except rushing, where we only rank 14.

 

All of these statistics become much more damning when you factor in where these rankings were in week 8 vs where they are now.  We were not the worst team in the league in week 8.  Right now, we are the worst team in the league.  Period.  Objective, subjective, I don't really give a fug.  It's obvious to anyone with two eyes and a pea for a brain bouncing around in their skull.

I mean....is this in a world that the Bengals don't exist? Because....last time I checked.....

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Marty keep's his crushes such a secret that I nailed the Burns and Grier picks in my final mock.  Honestly, I wanted other players, but was nearly certain he was going that way.  Obviously moving up for Little screwed up my 2nd round and 3a picks.  Hurney bought into the media chatter about drafting a developmental guy at QB because we never do.  He scouted Grier, fell in love...let it be known as much and the rest is history.

Well, supposedly Scott Turner loved Grier, right? Makes me think that Hurney is pretty malleable, which gives me some hope that if we get some more front office people in, they can talk him out of some of his dumber moves. 

[45catfan]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Well, supposedly Scott Turner loved Grier, right? Makes me think that Hurney is pretty malleable, which gives me some hope that if we get some more front office people in, they can talk him out of some of his dumber moves. 

As long as Marty isn't the final say when the cards are turned in on draft day, I suppose him lingering in some other capacity with the team will be ok.  He can have input on the first rounder only, after that he go file some paperwork, de-lime the coffee machine, organize a box of paperclips or something.  

[1of10Charnatives]

32 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I'm not here to look up stats and measurements for you.  If you wish to rebut, feel free.  Here are a few talking points that cannot be debated that support my case, however. 

 

We have the second worst ranked run defense, and 20th ranked pass defense (#23 ranked overall)

We were manhandled by the Redskins, who are considered to be one of the very worst teams in the league.

We were massacred twice by the Falcons, who are considered to be one of the very worst teams in the league.

We were decimated by the Colts, who are an average (at BEST) team.

We are in the bottom half of the league in every offensive category except rushing, where we only rank 14.

 

All of these statistics become much more damning when you factor in where these rankings were in week 8 vs where they are now.  We were not the worst team in the league in week 8.  Right now, we are the worst team in the league.  Period.  Objective, subjective, I don't really give a fug.  It's obvious to anyone with two eyes and a pea for a brain bouncing around in their skull.

Those are at least objective facts. They definitely support the argument we are bad. I’d say they actually work against your argument we’re the worst. You yourself point out we’re in the bottom half in many categories. In a league of 32 teams, bottom half is anywhere from 17th to 32nd. Worst is 32nd. There are many metrics teams get measured by. Which ones do we rank 32nd in? Because that is, objectively speaking, what represents worst. Not bottom half.

Do you think that similar statistical rankings can not be cited to show the Bengals, Dolphins etc are not fairing at least as poorly if not worse?

It gets old watching people speak in nothing but overblown exaggerated extremes. We are perpetually either dominant or doormats, which seems odd to describe a team whose signature records are 9-7 and 7-9. There is abundant evidence to support the notion we are a bad football team right now. I’ve seen none to support the notion we’re the worst.

You say worst but the facts you bring to bear support only bad. Bad is reasonable. Worst is exaggeration.

 

[DeAngelo Beason]

29 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Those are at least objective facts. They definitely support the argument we are bad. I’d say they actually work against your argument we’re the worst. You yourself point out we’re in the bottom half in many categories. In a league of 32 teams, bottom half is anywhere from 17th to 32nd. Worst is 32nd. There are many metrics teams get measured by. Which ones do we rank 32nd in? Because that is, objectively speaking, what represents worst. Not bottom half.

Do you think that similar statistical rankings can not be cited to show the Bengals, Dolphins etc are not fairing at least as poorly if not worse?

It gets old watching people speak in nothing but overblown exaggerated extremes. We are perpetually either dominant or doormats, which seems odd to describe a team whose signature records are 9-7 and 7-9. There is abundant evidence to support the notion we are a bad football team right now. I’ve seen none to support the notion we’re the worst.

You say worst but the facts you bring to bear support only bad. Bad is reasonable. Worst is exaggeration.

 

You clearly didn't pay attention to my very last statement.  The fact that we are now in the bottom half, near bottom in those categories considering how we STARTED the season actually firmly cement my argument.

[DeAngelo Beason]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean....is this in a world that the Bengals don't exist? Because....last time I checked.....

I so wish we could play the Bengals so they could stomp our asses.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I so wish we could play the Bengals so they could stomp our asses.

I mean, that just makes this seem like you care more about being right about your hyperbolic statement than anything else. 

You know, all you really had to say is we are "one of the worst teams in the league right now" and basically everyone would agree with that. It's just when you go to "worst in the league" that it becomes pretty hard to conclusively support that statement. 

If you want to FOR SURE make that statement, it would have been best to say, "We are the worst team in the NFL over the past seven games." In that competition it's just us and Detroit(8 straight losses). 

[DeAngelo Beason]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, that just makes this seem like you care more about being right about your hyperbolic statement than anything else. 

You know, all you really had to say is we are "one of the worst teams in the league right now" and basically everyone would agree with that. It's just when you go to "worst in the league" that it becomes pretty hard to conclusively support that statement. 

If you want to FOR SURE make that statement, it would have been best to say, "We are the worst team in the NFL over the past seven games." In that competition it's just us and Detroit(8 straight losses). 

If the Panthers were the unfortunate victims of me being "right", then so be it, although any reasonable person knows that when they lose it's their fault, and not the fault of a fan who simply knows they suck.  I didn't say I wished the Bengals would beat us.  I said I wish we would play them with the insinuation that my statement could prove itself out.  I will always pull for them, even when I am 100% certain that they will lose.

Now, when speaking in present tense, the English language commands the listener to assume you are speaking of things as they presently are.  I said "we are the worst team in the league".  Saying "currently", or "recently" is redundant and unnecessary.

We are the worst team in the league.  We would lose to any team in the NFL.  "PRESENTLY".  Doesn't matter how we started the season.  The fact that we ARE the worst team in the league is quite relevant considering the topic was in regard to Grier's performance in the last game.  He is playing on the worst team in the NFL and it's only been one game.  People are jumping off the deep end for no reason.

[TheMaulClaw]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Similar to Kyle, the OL wasn't the whole issue. Will was missing on passes he should have made, period.

Doesnt surprise me. He hasnt had the reps in practice all year...and doesnt have any timing with the receivers. 

I'm not a Grier fan. I do think he was set up to fail though.