Grier's performance

[cmichd]

9 hours ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Kyle Allen looked like a more competent back-up than Will Grier did. 

I would take Kyle over Grier for next year unless Grier makes a impressive leap over the off season.  He looked just like he did in preseason, and he has had 13 games as back up and running 2nd string to learn more over the season.  I don't think the Panthers would hesitate to put Grier on the PS next year if it comes down to it.

[Carl Spackler]

Just now, cmichd said:

I would take Kyle over Grier for next year unless Grier makes a impressive leap over the off season.  He looked just like he did in preseason, and he has had 13 games as back up and running 2nd string to learn more over the season.  I don't think the Panthers would hesitate to put Grier on the PS next year if it comes down to it.

You have a lot of uninformed opinions

[cmichd]

3 hours ago, GoPanthers123 said:

Here is what I saw.  He throws a short pass to cmc or he is sacked, running for his life and throwing on the run.  The body is moving one way and he is throwing the other way and a rookie can’t have good accuracy like that.  Cool we can draft a qb and same thing will happen to them.  What I’m saying offensive Line should be a priority, then we can evaluate what we got at qb.

Looked at us picking number 8 off a CBS mock last night and they had us picking Justin Hubert as our QB.  This might not be a bad pick if we allow him to watch and work with a QB coach for a year.

[Snake]

1 hour ago, TheRed said:

Grier isnt ready, that much is obvious.

Those of you still clinging to Kyle Allen being a franchise QB need to move on or seek a mental health professional.

You nut huggers who write off two QBs after this horrible season should do us all a favor and commit yourself. Get the help you need. 

[Snake]

24 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Those are all very valid points, and it seems like Allen is better "built" to run this kind of offense with the intermediate throws than Grier. Grier didn't have a prayer on some of those plays as the O-Line was leaking pass rushers before he could even finish dropping back. But credit where it's due, he held onto the ball when he was hit. 

Trying to say a player is better because he takes a hit better is like saying a WR might not have caught the ball but he sure can jump much higher. Fix the line then see what you have in the QB position. None of our QBs need to take the hits they did this year. 

[djp14]

Grier looked about like what I expected. 

Allen has looked better. 

Neither one is the answer, moving forward. 

 

 

[cmichd]

43 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

You have a lot of uninformed opinions

What makes your opinions more informed...none that I have saw.  Your speculation as it is mine.  I watched him in Preseason and Grier was lousy.  Why coaching staff made Kyle #2.  Plus this tibbit from Panthers wire in August.       

"According to a report by Jourdan Rodrigue at the Athletic, the Panthers will indeed be keeping three quarterbacks on their roster for the 2019 season.

This has been the speculation all offseason, at least since the team used a third-round pick on former West Virginia quarterback Will Grier. While Grier obviously still has a lot to learn, Carolina doesn’t want to risk another team picking him up off the practice squad, which is why they’ll be keeping one more QB than usual this year."      https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/30/panthers-roster-three-quarterbacks-2019-season-report/   Is that good enough for you.

[hepcat]

Kyle Allen is more accurate and consistent than Will Grier, so he moves the offense better. He hits the intermediate throws with more consistency and checked the ball down when he had to most of the time. But Allen also makes more dumbass mistakes when he's under pressure and has terrible pocket awareness. He has small hands and fumbles too much.

Grier has better pocket awareness (likely from more playing time in college). He didn't seem to get as rattled as Allen when under pressure and was able to evade sacks and not make as many mistakes. Two of his INTs were due to desperation and inexperience. But Grier strictly as a passer is behind Kyle Allen. He couldn't hit wide open intermediate throws and threw a few head scratching passes. 

They are both backup quality QBs and the Panthers need to draft someone in the first round, regardless of if Cam is on the team next season.

[Sgt Schultz]

Is anybody surprised that Grier threw a lot of check-down passes?  It was his first game, he knew his protection was going to be garbage going in, to me that would be totally expected.  Especially out of a guy that everybody thought needed to develop.

The problem I see is we have two backup QBs who were pressed into being starters.  I've said this on other threads, if you are going to have "true backups," you expect to use them for somewhere between a series and four games at the outside.  Any more than that, and you are changing the job description and your needs.  If you need a backup who can start 14 games, you'd better a former starter or somebody you are grooming to be the next starter (and is close to ready).  That is not what the brain trust opted to roll with in 2019, despite the fact we had serious questions about our starter's health or ability to go 16 games.

The roster was not constructed for the potential loss of Cam in week 2 (actually week 0).  It should have been, but it wasn't, and I was saying that while the roster was being constructed.  I don't know that any of the available veterans at the time would have posted more wins, but they would have at least been better equipped to handle starting for basically the entire season.

Truth is, I am not sure what this roster was constructed for.  Looking at it and how things unfolded, it was almost constructed hoping everybody had career years.

[Happy Panther]

I noticed this too. On the very first drive when our WR had his man beat deep he was falling backwards from pressure and under threw it. Not an excuse or an indictment...

[TheRed]

1 hour ago, Snake said:

You nut huggers who write off two QBs after this horrible season should do us all a favor and commit yourself. Get the help you need. 

You're beyond a broken record with the nut hugger nonsense. Get a new buzzword.

[mav1234]

53 minutes ago, hepcat said:

But Allen also makes more dumbass mistakes when he's under pressure and has terrible pocket awareness. He has small hands and fumbles too much.

He didn't seem to get as rattled as Allen when under pressure and was able to evade sacks and not make as many mistakes. 

I agree with just about everything and the overall conclusions of your post. Couple of my own thoughts:

1) Allen does not have small hands... not small enough to explain his issues. They are typical for a qb.  Fumble struggles are a mix of things, imo a lot is lack of experience overall.

2) Allen's pocket awareness has gone from mediocre or bad to plain awful.  Being sacked near the most in the league will do that.  And I think we can conclude that it isnt even close to all on allen with the sacks as some posters (not you) have said.  Grier is very impressive with his mobility and was still sacked 5 times.  This line is complete garbage.

3) both Grier and Allen made common rookie mistakes when under pressure... our OL has failed to provide any consistent protection.  Really feel for both those guys.

[mav1234]

7 minutes ago, Happy Panther said:

I noticed this too. On the very first drive when our WR had his man beat deep he was falling backwards from pressure and under threw it. Not an excuse or an indictment...

The unfortunate part is those 25% were often incompletions as well.  He was most effective scrambling and dumping it off to a TE or RB

[Anybodyhome]

37 minutes ago, hepcat said:

They are both backup quality QBs and the Panthers need to draft someone in the first round, regardless of if Cam is on the team next season.

Disagree with the first half of your statement and totally agree with the 2nd half.

The universal assumption around here seems to be "when Cam comes back..." and weighing the options of Grier vs. Allen as backups, which makes zero sense to me. The only way I even consider either of these guys as a possible backup is if Cam Newton didn't have 2 years worth of shoulder issues and a year of foot injuries. Only in that circumstance would I keep Allen and put Grier on the PS.

Draft the next starting QB in round 1 or 2 and these are the two guys you want backing him up? No way. Best go find a veteran UFA, like a Derek Anderson, to mentor and help out the kid.

Don't draft a QB and hope Cam can play, whether it's 4 games, 8 or the entire season and hope it's the latter because should Cam get reinjured and have to take a few weeks off, the Panthers will have lost another season.

I see better opportunity by drafting the next starting QB and finding a UFA vet backup or allowing the kid to wait until Cam gets hurt again or the team decides it's time to go in a different direction and Cam ends up holding the clipboard. Either way, they gotta draft a QB.