Patriots Cheating Could Be Worse with Machine Learning

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, JARROD said:

Jarrod is just Jarrod pal.

Well Jarrod pal, I must say you have some suspiciously pro-Pats takes here. Not really sure how anyone can interpret this the way you seem to be without being a Pats fan. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

No matter what the NFL will never admit the severity of what the Patriots have done or that they knowingly allowed it to happen. The ramifications would be huge. 

Conversely, if the NFL gives them a slap on the wrist, then the Panthers should hire film crews and go tape every sideline and compile their own database. 

If you dont stop cheating you condone it. SAS was correct saying that every other team in the league should do it. There's no need to play by the rules if the rules mean nothing.

[JARROD]

47 minutes ago, RelaxImaPro said:

Lol that steroid “scandal” is so overblown.  The little dirty secret is that just about the entire league does steroids at some point or another during the year.

Patriots got caught REALLY cheating that back then and some camp pushed out that story as a means to say “See!  They were cheating too!”

You think the Pats weren’t yoked up to the gills as well?  poo, BB probably administered the PEDs himself personally.

See. My point.

that “little steroid scandal” when “everyone” does it. 
 

it’s the Patriots so of course your next statements “probably” And “some camp pushed out a story” just backs up what I’m saying.

if you are a fan of the team it’s nothing. If you are against them it’s reason to cancel having a Team and burn everyone at the stake. Crucible.

i guess I don’t care enough about anything to have hates or biases drive me like everyone else seems to.

i love my team,... so they do no wrong,... I hate my team so they do no right.

at the end of the day if they broke the rule and there’s proof then they will pay.  Personally I don’t think it has any bearing on everyone else’s failures. 
 

most coaches wouldn’t know what to do with the filmed information anyway.

[Sgt Schultz]

8 minutes ago, JARROD said:

Well again “here we go again” could be more hysteria. Again if you are going to convict without proof you have to vindicate without proof.

hence the need for proof.

it Was just too stupid. No matter the plausible deniability of it, no matter what it was going to be seen as it is. That, coupled with the ease at which it was going to be noticed in a press booth just makes me call bullshit.

 

The problem is that the violation is the act itself, not the intent.

Even if we say the echelon of the organization didn't instruct them to or even want them to film the sideline, they put them in a position to do it AND apparently did not instruct them to avoid filming the sideline, which is what the league forbids and the organization knew that going in.....from experience.  This AFTER they were guilty of filming outside the constraints before.  Creating that environment and not telling the crew "whatever you do, don't film the sidelines" is too stupid for me to buy.

At a minimum, they are guilty of not having controls in place to make sure they are not violating something the league has specifically forbidden, they have done before, and for whatever reason, they set themselves up to violate again.

[JARROD]

9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well Jarrod pal, I must say you have some suspiciously pro-Pats takes here. Not really sure how anyone can interpret this the way you seem to be without being a Pats fan. 

I’m not really pro or against too many things except stupidity.

it also adds to stupidity that if someone isn’t conforming to the group think hostile crowd that they must be an alternate. I’ve always had the same handle, which is my first name. Here and other boards, it’s always just me.

[Sgt Schultz]

4 minutes ago, JARROD said:

I’m not really pro or against too many things except stupidity.

it also adds to stupidity that if someone isn’t conforming to the group think hostile crowd that they must be an alternate. I’ve always had the same handle, which is my first name. Here and other boards, it’s always just me.

Believe me, the stupidity on this pales in comparison to some of the stupidity I am hearing on the meeting I am dialed into, which is why I am debating this with you right now.   My head hurts, and not from our discussion.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, JARROD said:

I’m not really pro or against too many things except stupidity.

it also adds to stupidity that if someone isn’t conforming to the group think hostile crowd that they must be an alternate. I’ve always had the same handle, which is my first name. Here and other boards, it’s always just me.

I'm just saying that no other reasonable person that I have talked to in any fanbase has taken anything other than the "repeated offenders must be punished severely" postion......OTHER than simply Pats fans. 

Basically, the gist of your argument is essentially, "fug it, rules are dumb because people try to break them anyway." Well, most reasonable people aren't going to side with an essentially anarchist viewpoint like that. 

[JARROD]

2 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

The problem is that the violation is the act itself, not the intent.

Even if we say the echelon of the organization didn't instruct them to or even want them to film the sideline, they put them in a position to do it AND apparently did not instruct them to avoid filming the sideline, which is what the league forbids and the organization knew that going in.....from experience.  This AFTER they were guilty of filming outside the constraints before.  Creating that environment and not telling the crew "whatever you do, don't film the sidelines" is too stupid for me to buy.

At a minimum, they are guilty of not having controls in place to make sure they are not violating something the league has specifically forbidden, they have done before, and for whatever reason, they set themselves up to violate again.

“Guilty” again is following bias without proof.

if the film crew has been operating and making films for 18 years as they say and were just contractors making films, then what culpability does the coaching staff or players have from it?

is there any proof the film was to be Delivered or even watched by the coaching staff and/or players BEFORE they were to play?
 

it’s like your cousin gets arrested for selling cocaine, but maybe you own the lawn care company he works for and he got busted selling cocaine to the neighbors while cutting their grass.

it must be YOUR fault and you deserve to go to jail, just because you always beat me to work, for no other reason.

[JARROD]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I'm just saying that no other reasonable person that I have talked to in any fanbase has taken anything other than the "repeated offenders must be punished severely" postion......OTHER than simply Pats fans. 

Basically, the gist of your argument is essentially, "fug it, rules are dumb because people try to break them anyway." Well, most reasonable people aren't going to side with an essentially anarchist viewpoint like that. 

No my argument is that since everyone hates the pats, mainly because they always win, that any excuse to fry them along with legitimizing the excuses of other teams failures is where this crap comes from. The media loves feeding it too.

in all those cases, have any of those “other” fans offered up any plausible proof that anything in the coaching or player staffs directly ordered taping and were going to use it somehow to beat the Bengals worst than they already were ha.

that sounds completely rational to me.

i swear it’s just like the Crucible and witch hysteria

[Sgt Schultz]

1 minute ago, JARROD said:

“Guilty” again is following bias without proof.

if the film crew has been operating and making films for 18 years as they say and were just contractors making films, then what culpability does the coaching staff or players have from it?

is there any proof the film was to be Delivered or even watched by the coaching staff and/or players BEFORE they were to play?
 

it’s like your cousin gets arrested for selling cocaine, but maybe you own the lawn care company he works for and he got busted selling cocaine to the neighbors while cutting their grass.

it must be YOUR fault and you deserve to go to jail, just because you always beat me to work, for no other reason.

It is doubtful in my mind the players, including Brady, have any culpability.  Brady didn't hire the film crew, and it is not his responsibility to make sure the film crew he didn't hire knew the boundaries of what they could and could not do.

But for the organization in general, they did hire them and they did fail to give them the boundaries of what they were allowed to do.  Whether they passed the film onto the coaching staff or not is irrelevant, as that is not the problem.  Filming the sidelines is the problem, not filming the sidelines and delivering that film to the coaching staff for action.

In your analogy, it is like our lawn care business having a contract to cut the grass outside of a classified facility, and me not telling the crew the limits of where they can and can't go/work.  Yep, I am facing a good sanction/fine/action over that one when they wind up somewhere they are not supposed to be.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, JARROD said:

No my argument is that since everyone hates the pats, mainly because they always win, that any excuse to fry them along with legitimizing the excuses of other teams failures is where this crap comes from. The media loves feeding it too.

in all those cases, have any of those “other” fans offered up any plausible proof that anything in the coaching or player staffs directly ordered taping and were going to use it somehow to beat the Bengals worst than they already were ha.

that sounds completely rational to me.

i swear it’s just like the Crucible and witch hysteria

You are aware that the NFL isn't a court of law, correct? The league doesn't have to have "proof beyond reasonable doubt" to dole out punishment. The rule was very obviously knowingly violated and the reaction of the guy(who claims to have worked for the Pats for 18 years) is pretty telling. As far as the "did anyone else know" portion? That is actually not relevant at all. That's simply not having control of your organization, even if that were true. 

Again, we are talking about a repeat offender. Not only that, but they literally got caught doing the exact same thing in the exact same manner as the original Spygate. Hell, they even used the same cover as they did before.

But, yeah.......it's the rest of the world that's being irrational. Suuuuure.

[JARROD]

3 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

It is doubtful in my mind the players, including Brady, have any culpability.  Brady didn't hire the film crew, and it is not his responsibility to make sure the film crew he didn't hire knew the boundaries of what they could and could not do.

But for the organization in general, they did hire them and they did fail to give them the boundaries of what they were allowed to do.  Whether they passed the film onto the coaching staff or not is irrelevant, as that is not the problem.  Filming the sidelines is the problem, not filming the sidelines and delivering that film to the coaching staff for action.

In your analogy, it is like our lawn care business having a contract to cut the grass outside of a classified facility, and me not telling the crew the limits of where they can and can't go/work.  Yep, I am facing a good sanction/fine/action over that one when they wind up somewhere they are not supposed to be.

For me the only issue outside of direct proof to examine is the company policies and procedures etc.  

these were also “contractors” so the contracting agreement would be examined.

if there’s no language on the rules then sure, the organization is guilty of not ensuring proper communicating of all standards and rules and should be punished.

on the other side, what if the contractor agreement clearly outlines what is allowed and what is not allowed as well as penalties and was properly communicated?

would everyone drop it or would the drama just keep going. Again, because of the click bait and ratings the media will continue to spin it.

[JARROD]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You are aware that the NFL isn't a court of law, correct? The league doesn't have to have "proof beyond reasonable doubt" to dole out punishment. The rule was very obviously knowingly violated and the reaction of the guy(who claims to have worked for the Pats for 18 years) is pretty telling. As far as the "did anyone else know" portion? That is actually not relevant at all. That's simply not having control of your organization, even if that were true. 

Again, we are talking about a repeat offender. Not only that, but they literally got caught doing the exact same thing in the exact same manner as the original Spygate. Hell, they even used the same cover as they did before.

But, yeah.......it's the rest of the world that's being irrational. Suuuuure.

Again the rule was “obviously violated” by who?  A contractor? It would depend on the language that’s in the contracting agreement and the flow of where films get sent to. I’m sure that’s what is being investigated.

what is irrational is the total conviction without substantial proof of a person or organization simply out of competitive hate.

the same can be said of the blind love of their fans.

by the way,... spend some time listening to Simon Sinek and other psychologists.

the world is not rational, everything from everyone is driven by emotion.

 

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, JARROD said:

Again the rule was “obviously violated” by who?  A contractor? It would depend on the language that’s in the contracting agreement and the flow of where films get sent to. I’m sure that’s what is being investigated.

what is irrational is the total conviction without substantial proof of a person or organization simply out of competitive hate.

the same can be said of the blind love of their fans.

by the way,... spend some time listening to Simon Sinek and other psychologists.

the world is not rational, everything from everyone is driven by emotion.

 

Lol. Just like I'm sure that none of those mafia bosses had anything to do with any hits.