Patriots Cheating Could Be Worse with Machine Learning

[johnnydefence]

If the Patriots know their opponents substitution, signals and compared that to key elements like down, distance, and time it would take them less than a half to predict all the opponents calls (not tenancies) with a machine learning application. Imagine playing a game and your opponent pretty much knows everything you're doing. 

I might be giving them too much credit but they do have a Director of Data Science and Software on staff and this is what these guys do. I stumbled across the video explaining how a machine learning application could work in baseball and I suspect it would be similar for football. The more data they have the higher probability they can predict what their opponent is doing, much like the Astros were doing. This is sad and if they are doing something like this they should be punished. 

 

[jasonluckydog]

"If you ain't cheating you ain't trying"

 

Joe Montana 

[OneBadCat]

29 minutes ago, jasonluckydog said:

"If you ain't cheating you ain't trying"

 

Joe Montana 

What good is a dynasty if it isn’t won with integrity. This video pretty bad and damning. 
 

How does it feel to officially know the Patriots cheated super bowl 38?

Just makes you realize what sham professional sports can be. The so called greatest combo of all time won by knowing everyone else’s plays. Meanwhile our stud QB gets trashed by the media and head hunted out of a Super Bowl  so another “legend” Peyton Manning can get his retirement trophy at the expense of our franchise. Just shows yet again that the NFL doesn’t care about putting out a fair product.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

What good is a dynasty if it isn’t won with integrity. This video pretty bad and damning. 
 

How does it feel to officially know the Patriots cheated super bowl 38?

Just makes you realize what sham professional sports can be. The so called greatest combo of all time won by knowing everyone else’s plays. Meanwhile our stud QB gets trashed by the media and head hunted out of a Super Bowl for  so another “legend” Peyton Manning can get his retirement trophy at the expense of our franchise. Just shows yet again that the NFL doesn’t care about putting out a fair product.

Well, to be completely fair our OL was juiced to the gills that year so...

[The Lobo]

I think I heard someone say this guy has been doing this for 18 years...

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, The Lobo said:

I think I heard someone say this guy has been doing this for 18 years...

At this point I'm pretty well convinced that the Patriots have been cheating at a constant rate in the Belichick era.

[bobowilson]

I more or less agree with, "if you're not cheating, you're not trying".

But there's a problem with this logic when it comes to the NFL.

Only the Patriots are allowed to get away with such blatant cheating, because they have 'the halo of a winner', and the media/public perception when they're caught cheating is that everyone is just a sore loser who is jealous of their success.  So Goodell doesn't really have much incentive to go after them, since the public doesn't care, and it hurts the integrity of the NFL to focus on the issue.

Look at the response to the Bengals incident (people thought, "as if the Patriots would need to cheat against the Bengals").

On the other hand, try to imagine if the Panthers or say, Titans, got caught cheating.  The league would throw the book at them.

So while every team would love to get an edge, and do what the Patriots do, they don't have the sort of clout to get away with it.

Another confounding variable is how close Robert Kraft is to Roger Goodell. It's very known he was the owner most instrumental in pushing for him to be commissioner all those years ago.

 

[DeAngelo Beason]

I firmly believe the Patriots, as an organization, knowingly and willfully cheat in almost every game they play.  The effectiveness of that cheating may be up for debate, but there's absolutely no doubt that they are masters at coming up with ways to cheat.  I would love to see the NFL actually grow some balls and strip a couple titles from them.  I know it can be done in college, but no clue if the NFL even has a mechanism for such a thing.

[Shocker]

Everyone knows Belicheat and Shady Brady have been doing this from day one.  And  will continue to do it

[MHS831]

They are innovative as cheaters--deflated footballs (laundered after inspection), filming "walk throughs" sidelines, etc.   Brady has shown that he is willing to lie about cheating--BB showed it too recently.  I wonder about bugging the visitor's locker room or having spy cameras focused on the white boards.  It would be consistent.

 

[JARROD]

14 hours ago, OneBadCat said:

What good is a dynasty if it isn’t won with integrity. This video pretty bad and damning. 
 

How does it feel to officially know the Patriots cheated super bowl 38?

Just makes you realize what sham professional sports can be. The so called greatest combo of all time won by knowing everyone else’s plays. Meanwhile our stud QB gets trashed by the media and head hunted out of a Super Bowl  so another “legend” Peyton Manning can get his retirement trophy at the expense of our franchise. Just shows yet again that the NFL doesn’t care about putting out a fair product.

Against Michael Vick once when we finally beat them and gave them a bad game, it was said in interviews by defensive linemen that we figured out Vick’s cadence. I remember this very well.

i take getting signals much like watching tape on people.

when I played my little Amateur British American Football League in England teams always sent moles over to watch practices.

so we changed calls 15 minutes before game time.

To me this isn’t cheating any different than competitive intelligence.

you still have to play, execute, and many times it doesn’t matter if you know they are going to run or pass— they impose their will on you.

cheating for me would be like poisoning the locker room of the opposing team and making them harshly sick or sneaking ringer players on the field with real player jerseys to impersonate etc.

this whole thing is sour grapes. I hate the Patriots but they truly are better than everyone else. People can’t take it so they look for some way to make themselves feel better.

[Shufdog]

29 minutes ago, JARROD said:

Against Michael Vick once when we finally beat them and gave them a bad game, it was said in interviews by defensive linemen that we figured out Vick’s cadence. I remember this very well.

i take getting signals much like watching tape on people.

when I played my little Amateur British American Football League in England teams always sent moles over to watch practices.

so we changed calls 15 minutes before game time.

To me this isn’t cheating any different than competitive intelligence.

you still have to play, execute, and many times it doesn’t matter if you know they are going to run or pass— they impose their will on you.

cheating for me would be like poisoning the locker room of the opposing team and making them harshly sick or sneaking ringer players on the field with real player jerseys to impersonate etc.

this whole thing is sour grapes. I hate the Patriots but they truly are better than everyone else. People can’t take it so they look for some way to make themselves feel better.

They got caught red handed doing something against the rules. That's cheating, not sour grapes.

[Sgt Schultz]

28 minutes ago, JARROD said:

Against Michael Vick once when we finally beat them and gave them a bad game, it was said in interviews by defensive linemen that we figured out Vick’s cadence. I remember this very well.

i take getting signals much like watching tape on people.

when I played my little Amateur British American Football League in England teams always sent moles over to watch practices.

so we changed calls 15 minutes before game time.

To me this isn’t cheating any different than competitive intelligence.

you still have to play, execute, and many times it doesn’t matter if you know they are going to run or pass— they impose their will on you.

cheating for me would be like poisoning the locker room of the opposing team and making them harshly sick or sneaking ringer players on the field with real player jerseys to impersonate etc.

this whole thing is sour grapes. I hate the Patriots but they truly are better than everyone else. People can’t take it so they look for some way to make themselves feel better.

Except that the league prohibits it, and tries to actively enforce that prohibition.

The issue is that in the NFL, the talent differences are not generally great enough to mitigate somebody knowing what is coming at them.  If we were back in 1974, and we were the Houston Oilers playing the Dolphins, Steelers, or Raiders, there is a good chance they could send over every single play they were going to run and when, and we would still not be able to stop them.  Those teams (in the AFC, the Vikings, Rams, and maybe Cowboys in the NFC) were good enough that they were going to impose their will on the opponent unless they just had a bad day. 

But that era ended.  Now, the difference between winning and losing often boils down to five or six plays over the course of 60 minutes.

If I were playing the Patriots, I would change up signals, too.  And perhaps have a couple of different sets during the game. 

But none of that really matters, as the league has banned the practice.  Everybody associated with the league knows it is a banned practice, in large part due to the Patriots' previous actions.  And yet, they apparently continue to do it.

Fines apparently have no impact.  Loss of draft choices apparently have no impact.  Would the loss of salary cap dollars get somebody's attention?  I do not know, but it is worth a try.

[JARROD]

49 minutes ago, Shufdog said:

They got caught red handed doing something against the rules. That's cheating, not sour grapes.

So you are telling me that everyone would care just as much if it was the Lions, Bengals or Jacksonville? Or Carolina?

we had the Steroid scandal and nobody cared. Did we lose draft picks and have every Tom dick and Harry blowing up boards and ESPN?

no.

they win, we don’t, so everyone gets mad.