What you have heard, and what you haven't heard .

[TheMaulClaw]

1 hour ago, NAS said:

Good post. I think it also matters that we haven’t heard from Cam that he is willing to play without an extension, and one year left on his contract, and prove he can still play and stay healthy.  That is the biggest wildcard in all of this. Anything else and Panthers have no choice but to move on.

I mean honestly Cam should play without an extension. I mean this season was supposed to be his prove it year. We didnt get that. He needs to show he can string a healthy season together before he gets a big check. Also it would be good for him. One good year would make him millions more on his next contract.

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

We've thought Newton was fully or at least mostly healthy a couple of times before. 

It's a mistake to think that just because a guy looks healthy in Week 1 he's still going to look equally healthy around week 10.

Who thought that? Most used the luck time table as a reference. That was suppose to be this season and not before. Of course Cam will always want to play through injuries.. its who he is. Coaching staff has to say no.

[thefuzz]

1 hour ago, ellis said:

That’s a fair point. And that’s the risk. I’ve said in the past and I’ll say it again, this is not a slam dunk decision. I just think many folks are understating his value beyond throwing the ball, while at the same time overstating the amount of capital you would get in return via trade. 

His ability to read defenses is highly undervalued. Also: Over 40% of his career runs, designed or otherwise, lead to a fresh set of downs. Think of how many red zone (Goalline) opportunities this team has missed on in his absence. And while I understand his shoulder could take a brutal hit in the open field, that’s just part of his game and where ever he plays next, that won’t change. I think he’s far more likely to get hurt standing in a messy pocket trying to deliver on a deep route. 

Turner did a good job of reinventing Newton’s game. More WCO concepts from the route tree, less vertical volume. But, no: at no time was he told to stop running. In fact, he was still running with great success well into last season.

My understanding regarding the shoulder is that some of this damage is irreversible, and will limit his career by a few years. And I definitely understand the arthritis portion of it. But considering he’s just now 30, my suggestion has been to give him at least a few more years to see what he can do with these very talented skill players.

I see this ALL THE TIME around here.  "He only gets hurt in the pocket"....which is simply not true.

Cam's worst injuries have been outside the pocket.  Chases INT down for the 1st shoulder injury, concussion in ATL, broken back in his truck, scrambling (in the pocket, but didn't need to scramble) in the preseason.  The TJ Watt hit took place in the pocket, but that initial injury was already there.

 

[raz]

i could def get behind the idea of a 1 year extension that both parties can get out of barring injury.  i don't think its fair to ask cam to play on a 1 year deal.  he's done a lot for the franchise.  he's also been given crappy lines, crappy coaching, been required to sacrifice his body when he was too young to know better, and on and on and on.   for lack of a better word it would be rude as hell to ask/expect him to play on a 1 year deal.  i do think we need to pay for the sins of our past a bit or let him do what he wants concerning being released or being allowed to seek a trade that would grant him more security than we will.

[Matt62881]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

"Cam is our guy. We are committed to him and will build around him."

Or perhaps...

"Cam is the starting QB of the Carolina Panthers, period."

These were the sentiments of the past 8 off seasons. There has never been a single hint of waivering on Cam, until now.

The latest statement of "Yes we prefer a healthy Cam Newton to start but remains open to trade offers" falls well short of the statements above. It is the first time in Cam's career that it has ever been said. Cam hasn't been fully healthy at the start of the season in quite a while, yet he has always been the unquestioned starter, point blank. 

Like it or not, what we are hearing now is a deviation from what has been the norm in the franchise's stance on Cam, historically. These nuances in language are significant. A "healthy" qualifier. Open to trade? That's new. 

Will Cam be a Panther in 2020? Possibly

Will he be traded? Possibly

Could he fail a physical? Possibly

Could he hold out? Possibly

This is the entire point. Cam's circumstances in Carolina are a complete unknown for the first time in his entire career. There are so many variables at play that absolutely nothing would surprise me. To pretend otherwise is just wishful thinking.

 

  Hide contents

 

This thread will be full of irrational and emotional hatred to anyone that says cam may not be here next year.

 

 

I'm convinced, imo through common sense, that IF cam shows he is healthy and can run, he will be extended but for less then the avg franchise qb salary but for 3 yrs or so. Or hurney could give him 30m a yr.....

[thefuzz]

24 minutes ago, SmartyHurney said:

OP predicted that Joe Burrow would slide to the panthers. That should say it all to anyone that pays attention to the NFL.

The closest thing that we have to an actual scout (has a buddy in the biz and I have no reason to question him) had Burrow as most teams 3rd QB on the board.  I was surprised, but we don't know poo.

[thefuzz]

14 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I mean honestly Cam should play without an extension. I mean this season was supposed to be his prove it year. We didnt get that. He needs to show he can string a healthy season together before he gets a big check. Also it would be good for him. One good year would make him millions more on his next contract.

I 100% agree with this.  And possibly deep down, Cam does to.

But that's why they hire agents.

[Wolfcop]

Obviously the best case scenario for the Panthers is a healthy Cam. If he isn't healthy, it is time to move on. The other question is, do you gamble on waiting if he isn't completely? I would not blame the decision makers for moving on if those questions cannot be answered without doubt. 

[Sgt Schultz]

Really, Jeremy?  You are asking Sergeant Schultz what he has heard?

In this case, it is not that I hear nothing.  I just realize that what I do hear is speculation, and leads to me knowing nothing more after seeing it than I knew before.

[Wolfcop]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The closest thing that we have to an actual scout (has a buddy in the biz and I have no reason to question him) had Burrow as most teams 3rd QB on the board.  I was surprised, but we don't know poo.

I am obviously not an NFL scout, but if Burrow is the 3rd best QB in this draft, I am blind as a bat.

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, Wolfcop said:

I am obviously not an NFL scout, but if Burrow is the 3rd best QB in this draft, I am blind as a bat.

Agreed, I was surprised as well.

 

There you go.

 

[ickmule]

We don’t know what we don’t know.....

[ellis]

34 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I see this ALL THE TIME around here.  "He only gets hurt in the pocket"....which is simply not true.

Cam's worst injuries have been outside the pocket.  Chases INT down for the 1st shoulder injury, concussion in ATL, broken back in his truck, scrambling (in the pocket, but didn't need to scramble) in the preseason.  The TJ Watt hit took place in the pocket, but that initial injury was already there.

 

I’m focused on shoulder and foot right now. Shoulder happened chasing down a pick, but it did not happen with him running for a 7 yard gain. That’s my point. His role as a runner has not caused him any sort of significant structural damage. The concussions? Well, the ones in Denver were downright criminal and nothing was done about it from the league standpoint. There was one in Atlanta in 2016.

The truck wreck, look, I’ve pointed that out on numerous occasions on Twitter and in articles. That was a serious incident, and he came right back in led the team to a division title. You can say he didn’t need to scramble in the pocket against New England, but he was still in the pocket. I made it a point to say that he can’t try to be superman in every preseason game. 

The narrative I’m fighting against is from those who suggest running downfield to gain yardage is causing him substantial damage. With the amount of runs he’s accounted for, it simply doesn’t add up. He is still a dominant force in the running game, and it only takes about seven runs a game for Cam to make a major impact.
 

That’s less than two runs per quarter. And on average, 40% of those runs convert a first down for the offense. Not to mention, the strain that threat puts on the defense and the direct threat it presents to an opposing defense down near the goal line is of high value. 

I understand he’s had a long list of injuries, and I’m not trying to marginalize any of them. I’m speaking specifically about the shoulder and the foot. Any past concussions or back injuries, unless he’s hiding symptoms of that too, have no bearing on anything right now. Psychologically, maybe. But I don’t think cam is quite that soft. He runs hard, and he runs with violence, and he’s not built like an average quarterback. He’s built for contact. He has elite quarterbacking skills, with the added benefit of being the size of most tight ends. 
 

 

[micnificent28]

27 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The closest thing that we have to an actual scout (has a buddy in the biz and I have no reason to question him) had Burrow as most teams 3rd QB on the board.  I was surprised, but we don't know poo.

What are you talking about. Mcshay and mel both agree hes going first.