Kyle Allen. Despite being written off already, I still see potential there.

[kungfoodude]

13 hours ago, Navy_football said:

You ignored the second part. He's had some success.

Clausen was a classic fail in every aspect. 

That is literally what you want your backup to do, have SOME success. Like enough success to last a few drives in a game when your starter is down or be able to last 1-3 games while your starter gets healthy. That is pretty much what Kyle did. And then he kept starting and has been unable to get any more wins. 

Yes, Kyle hasn't had a lot of great supporting cast help. poo OL. Suspect WR's. Poor defense. But....it's the NFL, everything isn't perfect. Cam was able to make imperfect situations into winning situations. Russell Wilson does it. Pat Mahomes does it. Elite starting QB's are able to do it. If you want to simply ignore the very obvious physical limitations that Kyle has, you can't ignore that fact. Just go look at your journeyman QB's in the league that have mixed success or backups that flash for a couple of games. They have success when things around them are going really well. Then when it all breaks down, they do too. This is the key difference between great players and average or below average players. Kyle Allen is not a great player. Kyle Allen is unlikely to magically become a great player.

Just be glad we have a capable and cheap back up option. 

[WOW!!]

19 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

No one could have held onto the ball with that hit he took from behind this weekend. Moton didn't even shout "Watch Out!"

That kid has been knocked around worse than David Carr in Houston and is playing better than David Carr in Carolina. If you look at any of the first time starting QBs that have been fielded this season in the NFL and think any of them have potential, then you have to put Allen on the same list.

One more yard of push from our offensive line in two games this season, and the kid would have two more wins. That same line couldn't get one more yard for Cam and Christian for a win against Tampa. And let's not even talk about could the defense maybe frikkin' tackle someone?

Could he be a good QB under the right conditions, maybe. It's hard to say right now because he hasn't played in anything close to optimal or even decent conditions. Let's be honest, it's pretty amazing he isn't already on IR.

No QB gets to play under optimal conditions all the time..  plain and simple..

[WOW!!]

9 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That is literally what you want your backup to do, have SOME success. Like enough success to last a few drives in a game when your starter is down or be able to last 1-3 games while your starter gets healthy. That is pretty much what Kyle did. And then he kept starting and has been unable to get any more wins. 

Yes, Kyle hasn't had a lot of great supporting cast help. poo OL. Suspect WR's. Poor defense. But....it's the NFL, everything isn't perfect. Cam was able to make imperfect situations into winning situations. Russell Wilson does it. Pat Mahomes does it. Elite starting QB's are able to do it. If you want to simply ignore the very obvious physical limitations that Kyle has, you can't ignore that fact. Just go look at your journeyman QB's in the league that have mixed success or backups that flash for a couple of games. They have success when things around them are going really well. Then when it all breaks down, they do too. This is the key difference between great players and average or below average players. Kyle Allen is not a great player. Kyle Allen is unlikely to magically become a great player.

Just be glad we have a capable and cheap back up option. 

This.. 

The difference between a franchise QB you want to build around and a backup is this.. Elite to good QB'S adapt no matter what.. Game manager and backup need "optimal conditions " to succeed.  

[mav1234]

9 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Kyle Allen is not a great player. Kyle Allen is unlikely to magically become a great player.

Just be glad we have a capable and cheap back up option. 

Indeed.  Ultimately, Allen likely has a higher ceiling than we have seen so far, but I just don't see him as a player that could ever be relied on to win you games consistently.  I think he is likely to improve, but he's not going to magically become a great player.

And *if* we are truly moving into a rebuilding phase, we should aim for a great QB.  Sure, Allen could probably navigate an offense with a bunch of great players to the playoffs once in a while, but I'm tired of playoffs once in a while.  We need a great QB and Allen is unlikely to become a great QB.

But he is a great, cheap option as a backup.

[GoPanthers123]

19 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

No one could have held onto the ball with that hit he took from behind this weekend. Moton didn't even shout "Watch Out!"

That kid has been knocked around worse than David Carr in Houston and is playing better than David Carr in Carolina. If you look at any of the first time starting QBs that have been fielded this season in the NFL and think any of them have potential, then you have to put Allen on the same list.

One more yard of push from our offensive line in two games this season, and the kid would have two more wins. That same line couldn't get one more yard for Cam and Christian for a win against Tampa. And let's not even talk about could the defense maybe frikkin' tackle someone?

Could he be a good QB under the right conditions, maybe. It's hard to say right now because he hasn't played in anything close to optimal or even decent conditions. Let's be honest, it's pretty amazing he isn't already on IR.

Well said.   Also teams have not figured him out.  First Int was a dropped pass, second Int was a throw into triple coverage which he should have looked for open man or thrown away.  Yeah a rookie mistake, otherwise high accurate passing all game.

[mav1234]

Just now, GoPanthers123 said:

Well said.   Also teams have not figured him out.  First Int was a dropped pass, second Int was a throw into triple coverage which he should have looked for open man or thrown away.  Yeah a rookie mistake, otherwise high accurate passing all game.

I am not concerned with Allen's interceptions, tbh.  Rookies always through tons of 'em.  I am slightly concerned with his fumbling, but I also think *most* of the fumbles lately have been blindside hits seconds after he gets the ball.

But what I am concerned about is his limited ability to deliver the ball deep.  He also gets rattled and fails to go through his reads.  Some times, that is because of pressure, but it definitely is not always the case.

He clearly has issues with his deep ball. I guess it may be arm strength, but I'm not sure; he has shown the strength to deliver the ball deep, just not consistently.  And if you can't stretch the field reliably past 20 yards, you're going to have a lot of trouble.  Yeah, that can be partially covered with scheme, but then you need to be extremely good with your reads, and he just isn't yet.

[firefox1234]

9 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That is literally what you want your backup to do, have SOME success. Like enough success to last a few drives in a game when your starter is down or be able to last 1-3 games while your starter gets healthy. That is pretty much what Kyle did. And then he kept starting and has been unable to get any more wins. 

Yes, Kyle hasn't had a lot of great supporting cast help. poo OL. Suspect WR's. Poor defense. But....it's the NFL, everything isn't perfect. Cam was able to make imperfect situations into winning situations. Russell Wilson does it. Pat Mahomes does it. Elite starting QB's are able to do it. If you want to simply ignore the very obvious physical limitations that Kyle has, you can't ignore that fact. Just go look at your journeyman QB's in the league that have mixed success or backups that flash for a couple of games. They have success when things around them are going really well. Then when it all breaks down, they do too. This is the key difference between great players and average or below average players. Kyle Allen is not a great player. Kyle Allen is unlikely to magically become a great player.

Just be glad we have a capable and cheap back up option. 

/thread

[Navy_football]

19 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That is literally what you want your backup to do, have SOME success. Like enough success to last a few drives in a game when your starter is down or be able to last 1-3 games while your starter gets healthy. That is pretty much what Kyle did. And then he kept starting and has been unable to get any more wins. 

Yes, Kyle hasn't had a lot of great supporting cast help. poo OL. Suspect WR's. Poor defense. But....it's the NFL, everything isn't perfect. Cam was able to make imperfect situations into winning situations. Russell Wilson does it. Pat Mahomes does it. Elite starting QB's are able to do it. If you want to simply ignore the very obvious physical limitations that Kyle has, you can't ignore that fact. Just go look at your journeyman QB's in the league that have mixed success or backups that flash for a couple of games. They have success when things around them are going really well. Then when it all breaks down, they do too. This is the key difference between great players and average or below average players. Kyle Allen is not a great player. Kyle Allen is unlikely to magically become a great player.

Just be glad we have a capable and cheap back up option. 

Woah! Slow down sir.

I didn't say Kyle could be elite or even great. He could possibly turn a corner but I don't think he can improve THAT much! He doesn't Wow you with anything but he has shown good touch and accuracy in spots.

But... if you look around the league there are more than a few teams with starters that haven't shown more than Kyle - as a young first year starter. Now I wouldn't want him as the Panthers starter, particularly with Cam still on the roster. But he could still develop into a decent quarterback in the NFL. For now though, I agree, he's not much more than a capable backup. 

[WOW!!]

Potential to be a top of the line backup.. That is all and its okay.. 

[trueblade]

3 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Potential to be a top of the line backup.. That is all and its okay.. 

And a really good outcome for a UDFA. 

[Wolfpack352]

I have not written him off but kid needs work.  A better Oline can do wonders but that goes for most QB, being comfy back there allows you to make plays.  Lots of changes happening and offseason work will shed some light as to what might happen.

[MountaineerChemist10]

On 12/11/2019 at 1:44 PM, PanthersNC1984 said:

So it seems a majority of us has already written off Allen as just yet another footnote QB for the Panthers like Matt Moore or Jimmy Clausen, I’m not so sure I’m ready to throw in the towel myself though. Yes, he has looked inconsistent and has had some piss poor games. But there is one key thing I still think Allen has in spades.. Intangibles. Stuff you won’t see on film or can see in stat lines. He just seems to pass the eye test, he is calm under pressure, the work ethic seems to be there, he doesn’t seem to let bad plays weigh him down, he sees the field well most of the time and despite a few fixable things here or there he seems to learn from his mistakes and learn.

Besides all this I go back and look at his game against a good Houston team in a hostile environment and his game against the Saints this year in the dome, even the AZ game where he didn’t crack despite his first start this year in front of loved ones and friends. The bottom line is this, most of us have written off Allen as just another forgotten QB but I am very intrigued to see what he can do with a whole off season with a new offensive minded head coach and one year wiser with all the experience he has gained this year. Keep in mind as well he is just 23 years old, only two years removed from being able to drink legally for god Saale. 

I wouldn't mind signing him back for another year, but only as a backup. 3-4 mil tops.

[WOW!!]

2 hours ago, trueblade said:

And a really good outcome for a UDFA. 

Agreed.. Him not being Kurt Warner isn't a insult..

[kungfoodude]

18 hours ago, Navy_football said:

Woah! Slow down sir.

I didn't say Kyle could be elite or even great. He could possibly turn a corner but I don't think he can improve THAT much! He doesn't Wow you with anything but he has shown good touch and accuracy in spots.

But... if you look around the league there are more than a few teams with starters that haven't shown more than Kyle - as a young first year starter. Now I wouldn't want him as the Panthers starter, particularly with Cam still on the roster. But he could still develop into a decent quarterback in the NFL. For now though, I agree, he's not much more than a capable backup. 

It's possible that he could develop into a journeyman caliber QB but I am extremely skeptical of that. He just has too many negative aspects to his play that I do not expect to see him overcome easily in the NFL. 

Not that big of a deal to me, as you said, capable backup and at a good price.