How Attractive is this Carolina Panthers Job?

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

This is one of the many scenarios that I dislike because I think coach and FO interests are not aligned with overall team and fan interests. Very often in this type situation, these coaches and GM's trade up in the draft to get "their guy", spending valuable extra draft capital to placate their own personal desires and then more often than not said prospect does not come anywhere near justifying the cost in resources, yet the same coaches and GM's will then trot out any number of bs excuses to keep from being held accountable for the failure of their decisions.

When Hurney and Fox began to trade future 1st rounders to draft guys in the present I pretty much went through the roof. Those deals served their own personal agendas, not the teams, and in hindsight clearly were awful moves.

On the other hand Green Bay stood pat one year and look who fell into their lap cause they refused to panic. There's your mid round franchise qb for you, Pro Bowl caliber to boot, at no extra cost.

Huh, look at that.

Then you have the flipside of those deals, like when the Giants gave up a fortune to get Eli. Yeah, you can argue that Eli wasn't worth it, but two rings are two rings.

Ultimately, huge moves are judged less by how that particular player turns out and more by the overall team success going forward which is exactly how they should be viewed.

Julio Jones is an all-time great WR, but the Falcons really shackled themselves by giving up that much to get a WR. Had they not blown that 28-3 lead, the move would be viewed differently.

[MHS831]

Soft media market

Motivated owner

Nice town/climate

Good foundation

I would say it is appealing, but Tepper will not give supreme executive power to the coach, so the BIll Parcell's and Brian Billichick's of the world will stay away.

That is why I think we will not even consider Harbaugh.  That arrogant piece of trash is not worth the investment that it will take.

[Mr. Scot]

Side Note: Looking up some info today and found we had some alumni I was unaware of.

Turns out Jags GM Dave Caldwell and Chargers GM Tom Telesco both got their starts working as NFL personnel men with the Panthers, Caldwell from 96 to 97 and Telesco from 95 to 97. During that same time, a young guy named Greg Roman was working his way up the ranks in the coaching staff.

Go back a little further and you learn that Roman, Caldwell and Telesco were all college teammates at John Carroll university, with Caldwell also being there long enough to spend a year playing alongside a quarterback named Nick Caserio and a wide receiver named Josh McDaniels.

How did a bunch of guys from the same place land here? Well, they had a college teammate by the name of Chris Polian whose dad had something to do with the Panthers in 1995 (I forget what, I'd have to look it up).

I'll grant that Caldwell and Telesco aren't exactly top flight GMs, but they earned those jobs by being good at personnel.   Caldwell's emphasis was college scouting while Telesco served in pro personnel for a while.

You could build a decent front office out of those connections.

[1of10Charnatives]

17 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Then you have the flipside of those deals, like when the Giants gave up a fortune to get Eli. Yeah, you can argue that Eli wasn't worth it, but two rings are two rings.

Ultimately, huge moves are judged less by how that particular player turns out and more by the overall team success going forward which is exactly how they should be viewed.

Julio Jones is an all-time great WR, but the Falcons really shackled themselves by giving up that much to get a WR. Had they not blown that 28-3 lead, the move would be viewed differently.

I'm very much of the opinion that if Eli isn't also paired with a dominant defense, he has zero rings today. Sure he's a guy who could sometimes give you clutch performances to pull out key wins, but he didn't have the sort of talent that put in your team in position to get those key wins the way his brother did. In this respect I view him pretty much as a gunslinger like Jake. The difference is the Panthers gave up essentially nothing to get Jake, the Giants gave up a fortune to get Eli.

There's no way to know for sure, but I'd argue that if the Giants had just stood pat and stayed with Rivers instead of maneuvering for Eli, it's possible Rivers has 3 or more Super Bowl rings now because I consider him a more talented and consistent passer and he'd have Eli's roster PLUS an extra first and third rounder in his supporting cast.

When you think of Eli's two rings, do you honestly consider him the primary reason for those rings, or do you consider it to be his team's defense? To me it's the defense, Eli is just the guy who was good enough to not screw it up and give you a few key clutch plays along the way. Nothing to sneeze at sure, but I just at the end of the day think the Giants actually erred in trading for him, but this is covered up by the fact they did build a team good enough to win two rings.

With regards to Julio, I agree if the Falcons don't suffer the worst collapse in SB history, the trade to get him is viewed as an unqualified success. ultimately I'm not saying teams should never trade up in the draft, although I think it should probably happen far less than it does, I'm saying that very often these trades, especially when targeting a "franchise" qb, are made from a calculus whose starting point is not the team's overall best interests, but the personal agendas of a coach or GM. I think this often happens a lot when solid productive veterans are let go because they don't fit a new executive's "system" 

Hey coach, wanna show me you're really good at what you do? Fit a system to the proven players you have, rather than screwing your new fans over for a couple of years while they are forced to endure a rebuild in the name of acquiring players to fit "your" system, which then often doesnt work any better than the one the proven vet was playing in before, and he's now being productive for some other team while you wallow in losing or mediocrity, but hey, you've got YOUR system in place, so at least you're happy. Too bad your fans aren't, cause the product on the field sucks.

/rant

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

You could build a decent front office out of those connections.

Nice investigative research.   That would be interesting.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

Nice investigative research.   That would be interesting.

Caldwell and Telesco could both be on the hot seat this year.

Chris Polian might not be safe either, although that idea doesn't appeal to me as much.

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Caldwell and Telesco could both be on the hot seat this year.

Chris Polian might not be safe either, although that idea doesn't appeal to me as much.

So much depends on the culture.  It is hard to say--chemistry is very important.  Bad in San Diego/Los Angeles could be good in Charlotte.  Who knows

[rippadonn]

Having a franchise QB makes the job more attractive. Not having one is an uphill battle.

Having been Panthers fans you guys should know first hand that franchise QB =rare talent, yet some here think it's just sooooo easy to draft another one. Smh, newbs. They don't come around often. Not many guys reach that level. That's why teams are thirsty for Cam and are thirsty for Rivera.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I'm very much of the opinion that if Eli isn't also paired with a dominant defense, he has zero rings today. Sure he's a guy who could sometimes give you clutch performances to pull out key wins, but he didn't have the sort of talent that put in your team in position to get those key wins the way his brother did. In this respect I view him pretty much as a gunslinger like Jake. The difference is the Panthers gave up essentially nothing to get Jake, the Giants gave up a fortune to get Eli.

There's no way to know for sure, but I'd argue that if the Giants had just stood pat and stayed with Rivers instead of maneuvering for Eli, it's possible Rivers has 3 or more Super Bowl rings now because I consider him a more talented and consistent passer and he'd have Eli's roster PLUS an extra first and third rounder in his supporting cast.

When you think of Eli's two rings, do you honestly consider him the primary reason for those rings, or do you consider it to be his team's defense? To me it's the defense, Eli is just the guy who was good enough to not screw it up and give you a few key clutch plays along the way. Nothing to sneeze at sure, but I just at the end of the day think the Giants actually erred in trading for him, but this is covered up by the fact they did build a team good enough to win two rings.

With regards to Julio, I agree if the Falcons don't suffer the worst collapse in SB history, the trade to get him is viewed as an unqualified success. ultimately I'm not saying teams should never trade up in the draft, although I think it should probably happen far less than it does, I'm saying that very often these trades, especially when targeting a "franchise" qb, are made from a calculus whose starting point is not the team's overall best interests, but the personal agendas of a coach or GM. I think this often happens a lot when solid productive veterans are let go because they don't fit a new executive's "system" 

Hey coach, wanna show me you're really good at what you do? Fit a system to the proven players you have, rather than screwing your new fans over for a couple of years while they are forced to endure a rebuild in the name of acquiring players to fit "your" system, which then often doesnt work any better than the one the proven vet was playing in before, and he's now being productive for some other team while you wallow in losing or mediocrity, but hey, you've got YOUR system in place, so at least you're happy. Too bad your fans aren't, cause the product on the field sucks.

/rant

I'm just saying that it boils down to overall team success and the Giants won two rings with Eli.

Say what you want about Eli overall, but that guy played straight up LIGHTS OUT in the playoffs in both of those Super Bowl runs.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

So much depends on the culture.  It is hard to say--chemistry is very important.  Bad in San Diego/Los Angeles could be good in Charlotte.  Who knows

The Spanos family are absolutely in the discussion for worst owners in the NFL.

[1of10Charnatives]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm just saying that it boils down to overall team success and the Giants won two rings with Eli.

Say what you want about Eli overall, but that guy played straight up LIGHTS OUT in the playoffs in both of those Super Bowl runs.

Oh I agree it boils down to overall team success, I just think because Eli did win two rings and contributed in a non negligible way to those wins, people are loathe to even consider the possibility that acquiring him may ultimately not have been the best possible move. 

But let me just throw out a hypothetical: suppose when Bledsoe returns from injury, the Patriots reinstall him as the starter despite Brady's heroic super bowl win. Obviously the move would have been controversial, but suppose they then are able to trade the promising young qb to another team for some nice draft picks, and those draft picks are able to help Bledsoe and co pull out another ring in his twilight years. 

Because he's never paired with Bellichek's genius (and cheating) and maybe the team he's traded to doesn't put him in the best position to succeed, Brady's career is bright, but he does not grow into the GOAT with all those SB wins. It could easily have happened, much at the pro level depends upon chance. The point is that had such a scenario unfolded, no one would look back now and say the Patriots should have stuck with Brady, because none of us would know what might have been.'

The human brain is extraordinarily poor at taking into account even the rough possibility of things that do not happen.

[Snake]

I would say we are a premier spot. If NC wouldn't try to break people with taxes it would be better though. At least we are not New Jersey or New York though. 

[Sgt Schultz]

I think the Panthers job is perhaps the best on the board. 

The Falcons look like a mid-air collision with the salary cap waiting to happen.  Ryan is at a point where he will age out in the not-too-distant future.

The Giants job might be interesting to the right person.  The organization itself is reasonably stable (regardless of the GM situaiton), but they are in the midst of a major overhaul as a team, and I am not sure what positions they are strong in right now.  The jury is out on the QB position.

The Cowboys problem is the organization is a mess because of a narcissist as an owner, who will always err on the side of his ego over wins (Exhibit A and B are the eagerness to part company with Johnson and Parcells).  Arguably, the advantage is the most talent of any of these teams, but it is unproven whether that talent can function as a unit.  Their QB situation is also the strongest, even though some of their fans want to think otherwise.

We all know about the Redskin situation, which is a carbon copy of the Cowboys issue except without much of any success to show for it. 

The Browns are a poor-man's version of that same situation, although arguably with a more avid fanbase.  Whether Mayfield works out as a long-term NFL starter is anybody's guess. 

The Jags are interesting, but one would want to know why they are always looking up at things.  Is that organizational, or is it just bad luck.

[KB_fan]

I'd think Tepper makes it pretty attractive given his frequently stated desire to have EVERY competitive advantage, then backing those words up with actions (building the bubble, the pending new practice facility, his openness to sign Eric Reid...) 

Tepper wants the Panthers to be a premium NFL brand. Could be a huge opportunity for a coach if they succeed here. Not to mention Charlotte and the Carolinas are a very attractive place to live ...

Obviously there are roster questions, especially QB, but for some coaches the chance to pick their guy would increase the attraction.