Tepper if you do snoop this board, your thoughts on hurney are wrong

[SmokinwithWilly]

19 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

You know who we traded with for that pick.

The Patriots selected Ras-I Dowling with the 33rd pick in the draft we gave them in the Armani trade.  Dowling had even a worse career than Edwards, only playing 2 and 7 games for the Patriots over 2 years before getting cut.  Played 12 games in total over his entire NFL career (compared to 41 games for Armanti Edwards).

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DowlRa00.htm

Are the Patriots incompetent for selecting Ras-I Dowling with the 2nd rounder we gave them for Armanti Edwards, or perhaps, is the draft a crapshoot after round 1?

 

The Dowling pick absolutely sucked. But the difference between the Panthers and the Patriots is 6 Super Bowl wins with 9 appearances and 17 10+ win seasons in a row. The Panthers haven't even won back to back seasons no matter how many HoFs he drafted. 

And if you are saying that everything after round 1 is a crap shoot, then you are also saying that Hurney has no drafting skill at all after the 1st and its random luck. You cant have it both ways.

Hurney has had success drafting, That alone does not make him a great gm. He has many other areas where he has demonstrated mediocrity (free agent pickups) to straight up trainwreck (cap management).

[bobowilson]

16 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

 

And if you are saying that everything after round 1 is a crap shoot, then you are also saying that Hurney has no drafting skill at all after the 1st and its random luck. You cant have it both ways.

Hurney has had success drafting, That alone does not make him a great gm. He has many other areas where he has demonstrated mediocrity (free agent pickups) to straight up trainwreck (cap management).

No, I'm not saying that.  I've cited numerous times in this thread the tremendous success he's had in rounds 2-7, picking numerous Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers, far better than almost any other manager in the mid rounds.

People counter that by citing the Armanti Edwards and Jimmy Clausens, and I'm dismissing the foolish notion that somewhere exists a mythical general manager who doesn't have dozens of busts in the mid rounds equally as bad as those guys.

And I agree he's mediocre to bad with free agency and cap management.  But if you have a guy who is possibly the best drafter in the NFL as your GM (now that Ozzie Newsome retired) who happens to be bad at other areas of management, you don't get rid of him.  You get him some assistants to help him focus on what he's good at.  Which is precisely what we're doing.

 

 

[The Natural]

@bobowilson is dropping serious knowledge in this thread. Bravo sir.

[beo]

15 hours ago, RumHam said:

While you may argue that ron couldn't accomplish hurneys vision from his personnel choices, he isn't a great evaluator like you think he is. Just remember those were gettleman players when we peaked this decade. Our secondary shows flashes, and thats about it. Both ol and dl are atrocious. The wr got better, but samuel was a gettleman guy. Just because he agrees with everything you say doesn't mean hes good. Theres a reason no other team signed him over the course of four years.

they werent gettleman players lol what the fug are you talking about dude

cam newton - hurney

steve smith - hurney

greg olsen - a trade by hurney

jordan gross - hurney

luke kuechly - hurney

thomas davis - hurney

mario addison - hurney

dj moore - hurney 2.0

jonathan stewart - yeah you guessed it, hurney

 

that might be one of the most retarded things ive ever read on this board

[beo]

7 hours ago, bobowilson said:

No, I'm not saying that.  I've cited numerous times in this thread the tremendous success he's had in rounds 2-7, picking numerous Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers, far better than almost any other manager in the mid rounds.

People counter that by citing the Armanti Edwards and Jimmy Clausens, and I'm dismissing the foolish notion that somewhere exists a mythical general manager who doesn't have dozens of busts in the mid rounds equally as bad as those guys.

And I agree he's mediocre to bad with free agency and cap management.  But if you have a guy who is possibly the best drafter in the NFL as your GM (now that Ozzie Newsome retired) who happens to be bad at other areas of management, you don't get rid of him.  You get him some assistants to help him focus on what he's good at.  Which is precisely what we're doing.

 

 

but m-muh anecdotal examples that were almost certainly forced upon hurney by JR's senile ass!!!

[Toomers]

48 minutes ago, beo said:

they werent gettleman players lol what the fug are you talking about dude

cam newton - hurney

steve smith - hurney

greg olsen - a trade by hurney

jordan gross - hurney

luke kuechly - hurney

thomas davis - hurney

mario addison - hurney

dj moore - hurney 2.0

jonathan stewart - yeah you guessed it, hurney

 

that might be one of the most retarded things ive ever read on this board

Let’s see. Addison has nothing to do with Hurney. That was Beane. 
 

Hurney didn’t draft Smith. 
 

And if Hurney is such a “savant” with college talent, why did he never go to Auburn to scout Cam. Shula had more to do with picking Cam than Hurney. 

[beo]

Just now, Toomers said:

Let’s see. Addison has nothing to do with Hurney. That was Beane. 
 

Hurney didn’t draft Smith. 
 

And if Hurney is such a “savant” with college talent, why did he never go to Auburn to scout him. Shula had more to do with picking Cam than Hurney. 

so two players, my bad. plus smith didnt really contribute that much here in the early 2010s anyway, he had a career low year in 2013 and we werent relevant until then. also i mean i cant really give you top insider info on who helped hurney, the guy making the decision, to pick cam, but regardless of whoever "helped" him he still made the right choice in a really bad qb class.

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, beo said:

so two players, my bad. plus smith didnt really contribute that much here in the early 2010s anyway, he had a career low year in 2013 and we werent relevant until then. also i mean i cant really give you top insider info on who helped hurney, the guy making the decision, to pick cam, but regardless of whoever "helped" him he still made the right choice in a really bad qb class.

 So two out of nine examples are invalid. 3 if you count Cam. If Smith doesn’t count, Gross doesn’t either(your rules). And it takes DJ out as he just got here. Stewart was a cap nightmare for the majority of his career. 
 

What was the point again? 

[beo]

5 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 So two out of nine examples are invalid. 3 if you count Cam. If Smith doesn’t count, Gross doesn’t either(your rules). And it takes DJ out as he just got here. Stewart was a cap nightmare for the majority of his career. 
 

What was the point again? 

gross did count in 2013, he was a good LT for us. also the OP said in our peak, aka 2013-2015, those arent "my rules". hurney built almost all of our core from 2013-2015.

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, beo said:

gross did count in 2013, he was a good LT for us. also the OP said in our peak, aka 2013-2015, those arent "my rules". hurney built almost all of our core from 2013-2015.

Why would Gross count, and Smith doesn’t, when they played the exact same amount? It’s your rules that made that distinction. 
 

And that “core” was 23-41 the prior 4 seasons. They weren’t winning before that? Why is that? Could it be the OL/DL that only had Kalil and a cap-crippling CJ as holdovers by the SB. 

[beo]

Just now, Toomers said:

Why would Gross count, and Smith doesn’t, when they played the exact same amount? It’s your rules that made that distinction. 
 

And that “core” was 23-41 the prior 4 seasons. They weren’t winning before that? Why is that? Could it be the OL/DL that only had Kalil and a cap-crippling CJ as holdovers by the SB. 

smith wasnt that productive in 2013, atleast not to his standard, while gross was. and we're talking his talent evaluation, not his incompetence at managing contracts. hurney is a chaotic neutral at gm, a great talent evaluator but a horrible cap manager. also there were more players i couldve added to that list, just didnt because that was all i could get off the very top of my head. 

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, beo said:

smith wasnt that productive in 2013, atleast not to his standard, while gross was. and we're talking his talent evaluation, not his incompetence at managing contracts. hurney is a chaotic neutral at gm, a great talent evaluator but a horrible cap manager. also there were more players i couldve added to that list, just didnt because that was all i could get off the very top of my head. 

   Then list more. Because that first swing was a miss. Keep the goalposts in one place. DJ was in HS. How’s that work. 

[beo]

2 minutes ago, Toomers said:

   Then list more. Because that first swing was a miss. Keep the goalposts in one place. DJ was in HS. How’s that work. 

what swing? you're desperately trying to prove me wrong, nitpicking small details to try to frame my argument as being invalid. name a player on the 2015 team that was a gettleman pick, or free agency signing. i beg you. coleman? the guy who just benefited off of being able to play centerfielder and was one of the worst starting safeties in the league later in his tenure here? star and short were hits, but almost all of that 2015 team was a product of a hurney transaction or draft pick

[Toomers]

5 minutes ago, beo said:

what swing? you're desperately trying to prove me wrong, nitpicking small details to try to frame my argument as being invalid. name a player on the 2015 team that was a gettleman pick, or free agency signing. i beg you. coleman? the guy who just benefited off of being able to play centerfielder and was one of the worst starting safeties in the league later in his tenure here? star and short were hits, but almost all of that 2015 team was a product of a hurney transaction or draft pick

  Every WR

 Every DL except C. Johnson and his 20M cap hit. 
 

Every OL but Kalil. Including an All-Pro RG(3rd) and future All-Pro(udfa) 

Entire secondary besides Norman. 

Shaq

Looks like a majority to me.