"Marty Hurney is one of the best recognizers of college talent in the nation. Period." A deeper dive

[Car123]

6 minutes ago, panther4life said:

The cold hard facts of the record with him as GM is very damning. No denying that 1 bit.

However if you sprinkle in some objectivity you can see why some think the coaching and JR meddling hurt him as well. I think it’s fair to say he’s constructed good rosters over his time here and the talent he assembled should have produced better results. Fact is they didn’t. But Tepper must see something in him to not give him the boot along with Rivera. 
 

So if you want to see what Tepper sees in him, you have to be willing to look at the total picture. How many games were losses could have been wins if it wasn’t for critical coaching errors? How would this season have played out if Cam was healthy for the whole year? 
 

John Fox and Rivera lost us an extreme amount of very winnable games. We’ve lost to more inferior rosters than we have won against superior rosters under Hurneys tenure. 

If I had the time I’d love to see how many games were lost by a TD or less with Hurney at the helm. A a lot of those games we surely can contribute bad coaching to the reason we lost those games vs lack of talent.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Cracka McNasty said:

All the data was pulled from PFR, didn't even know CarAV was a thing.

Just looked into it, it's a cumulative score so I'd have to do some calculations to determine yearly average for the players. It's possible but I would need to pull the stats from all 32 teams individually I think, and I don't have time to do that. 

They have CarAV and AV for each year data.

[SmokinwithWilly]

The biggest number that doesnt lie is that after his first tenure he didnt receive one phone call for another GM job. Zero. He didnt end up working in the NFL. I'm pretty sure any position with a team would pay more than weekly radio host.

Version 2.0, it's too early to tell about where his draft picks will fall. Some could be pro bowlers (Moore, Burns) and others busts (Gaulden, Little).

I wont say he has no talent at drafting because he does, especially in the first. But he also has a penchant for doing a Casey at the bat type swing for it all with the same heartbreaking results. The biggest issue I have with his drafting is it has fairly consistently been earlier picks which means losing records. And some of his draft day trades make you question what the hell was he thinking. The Edwards trade is a close second to Gilbert and in some ways worse. But then he does an Olsen or KB trade and he's a trade god. 

But teams are built on more than MVPs and pro bowlers. You have to look at the entire team and judge collective value. And in that respect of team building, he has not been successful. 

He may very well be talented at college scouting, and I hope that's where Tepper leaves him primarily. When it comes to assembling the team, I hope it's someone else.

[bobowilson]

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

The biggest number that doesnt lie is that after his first tenure he didnt receive one phone call for another GM job. Zero. He didnt end up working in the NFL. I'm pretty sure any position with a team would pay more than weekly radio host.

 

This long standing argument has now been invalidated given David Tepper decided Hurney should be kept as GM

And Tepper might have the highest IQ of any owner in the NFL.

 

[NAS]

Nicely done, but you have too much time on your hands.   Are you trying to get Tepper to hire you?  

If not - you need to get another hobby or a GF ;)

[SmartyHurney]

15 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

The biggest number that doesnt lie is that after his first tenure he didnt receive one phone call for another GM job. Zero. He didnt end up working in the NFL. I'm pretty sure any position with a team would pay more than weekly radio host.

Version 2.0, it's too early to tell about where his draft picks will fall. Some could be pro bowlers (Moore, Burns) and others busts (Gaulden, Little).

I wont say he has no talent at drafting because he does, especially in the first. But he also has a penchant for doing a Casey at the bat type swing for it all with the same heartbreaking results. The biggest issue I have with his drafting is it has fairly consistently been earlier picks which means losing records. And some of his draft day trades make you question what the hell was he thinking. The Edwards trade is a close second to Gilbert and in some ways worse. But then he does an Olsen or KB trade and he's a trade god. 

But teams are built on more than MVPs and pro bowlers. You have to look at the entire team and judge collective value. And in that respect of team building, he has not been successful. 

He may very well be talented at college scouting, and I hope that's where Tepper leaves him primarily. When it comes to assembling the team, I hope it's someone else.

Yep, exactly. This is the last leg of the anti-Hurney hysteria standing. Statistics don't support your view, the new owner doesn't support your view, and now you have to fall back to one thing, and it isn't even true in the context of the new owner essentially giving him a job.

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, SmartyHurney said:

Yep, exactly. This is the last leg of the anti-Hurney hysteria standing. Statistics don't support your view, the new owner doesn't support your view, and now you have to fall back to one thing, and it isn't even true in the context of the new owner essentially giving him a job.

I'm not anti Hurney as a whole. Im anti Hurney as a GM. He is good at evaluating college talent, lacking in ranking it past the first, and is IMO, an average to less than average drafter overall. 

His actions as GM in his first tenure speak for themselves, and overall, he was not successful. When he was let go, our cap situation was atrocious. He may have drafted key players, but he severely limited the ability to build a team around it. Gettleman wasnt a prize either so dont think I'm a GMan nut hugger. I have praised his successes here and criticized his failures as well.

All Tepper has really said so far is Hurney is staying, but he hasnt said in what capacity. What I heard in the interview and gather from reading between the lines is Tepper wants to put people in the beat place to succeed. Sounds like heading the teams scouting and player evaluation out of college may be where he may be most valuable. 

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I'm not anti Hurney as a whole. Im anti Hurney as a GM. He is good at evaluating college talent, lacking in ranking it past the first, and is IMO, an average to less than average drafter overall. 

His actions as GM in his first tenure speak for themselves, and overall, he was not successful. When he was let go, our cap situation was atrocious. He may have drafted key players, but he severely limited the ability to build a team around it. Gettleman wasnt a prize either so dont think I'm a GMan nut hugger. I have praised his successes here and criticized his failures as well.

All Tepper has really said so far is Hurney is staying, but he hasnt said in what capacity. What I heard in the interview and gather from reading between the lines is Tepper wants to put people in the beat place to succeed. Sounds like heading the teams scouting and player evaluation out of college may be where he may be most valuable. 

That's what a lot of people are getting out of it, and not just people on this board.

[mc52beast]

2 hours ago, bobowilson said:

Ignorant

In the mid to late rounds

Marty Hurney acquired 2 Hall of Famers (Steve Smith, Olsen), 5 Pro Bowlers (Jenkins, Norman, Hardy, Kalil, Mathis), and another guy that was a borderline pro bowler in Charles Johnson

if anyone else had that record, I can't imagine their irrational fan base would be crying about he's terrible outside the 1st round;  you can keep repeating the names of Clausen, Edwards, Gaulden, but it doesn't change the fact his bust rate in the mid rounds is no higher than any other general manager

And in recent years, Dennis Daley, Donte Jackson, Ian Thomas, Christian Miller, and Haynes look very promising

He's one of the 3 best drafters in the entire NFL, and not only in the 1st round

The names speak for themselves

One of the three best drafters in the League and the only person who wanted him was JR...hmm

[bobowilson]

2 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

One of the three best drafters in the League and the only person who wanted him was JR...hmm

Seems like you forgot someone by the name of David Tepper, who called him an elite evaluator of talent

Richest owner in the NFL, likely with the highest IQ

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

Being a good evaluator of talent does not make you a good GM. 

[My Goodness My Guinness]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Marty ran the logistics of the draft. He was not in any way affiliated with the scouting department at that time. He was a cap specialist.

And he sure as hell didn't have final say on draft picks. That was George Seifert.

This made me laugh way too hard

[My Goodness My Guinness]

2 hours ago, bobowilson said:

2 Super Bowl appearances with Hurney constructed rosters (Gettleman added little to nothing on that 2015 team besides Turner and Short).

For an small market expansion team.

And we would have won both those Super Bowls if Fox and Rivera weren't such terrible coaches.

Hurney should not hire head coaches, but this discussion is about evaluating college talent.

People downplay just how much Star and Short (and the addition of Dwan Edwards) improved our defense. We had been without strong DTs for years and our defense was terrible because of it, kinda like we are now.

Gettleman's focus was the "hogmollies" which reflected the win through the trenches mentality. Though I wish he focused on finding a damn LT. 

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, My Goodness My Guinness said:

This made me laugh way too hard

Well, that was his job. I didn't necessarily say he was great at it