"Marty Hurney is one of the best recognizers of college talent in the nation. Period." A deeper dive

[Ricky Spanish]

1 minute ago, bobowilson said:

Ignorant

In the mid to late rounds

Marty Hurney acquired 2 Hall of Famers (Steve Smith, Olsen), 5 Pro Bowlers (Jenkins, Norman, Hardy, Kalil, Mathis), and another guy that was a borderline pro bowler in Charles Johnson

if anyone else had that record, I can't imagine their irrational fan base would be crying about he's terrible outside the 1st round;  you can keep repeating the names of Clausen, Edwards, Gaulden, but it doesn't change the fact his bust rate in the mid rounds is no higher than any other general manager

And in recent years, Dennis Daley, Donte Jackson, Ian Thomas, Christian Miller, and Haynes look very promising

He's one of the 3 best drafters in the entire NFL, and not only in the 1st round

The names speak for themselves

Hurney didn't draft Smith, and this entire thing was only over the stretch of the past decade as this is a what have you done for me lately kind of league and we fired a coach who won the division 3 years in a row more recently than that. 

[bobowilson]

1 minute ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Hurney didn't draft Smith, and this entire thing was only over the stretch of the past decade as this is a what have you done for me lately kind of league and we fired a coach who won the division 3 years in a row more recently than that. 

Yes he did

Maybe you're too young to know Panthers history, but it's well documented Hurney ran the 2001 draft and made the final call on those draft picks

Steve Smith has even talked about Hurney drafting him 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Where'd KB Fan when you need her? 

Didn't know that was a she. In any case, he/she is another great one for stats and number crunching. Might be nice to get her/his take on a way we could approach it.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

Yes he did

Maybe you're too young to know Panthers history, but it's well documented Hurney ran the 2001 draft and made the final call on those draft picks

Steve Smith has even talked about Hurney drafting him 

You got a link to Smitty talking about that?

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

Ignorant

In the mid to late rounds

Marty Hurney acquired 2 Hall of Famers (Steve Smith, Olsen), 5 Pro Bowlers (Jenkins, Norman, Hardy, Kalil, Mathis), and another guy that was a borderline pro bowler in Charles Johnson

if anyone else had that record, I can't imagine their irrational fan base would be crying about he's terrible outside the 1st round;  you can keep repeating the names of Clausen, Edwards, Gaulden, but it doesn't change the fact his bust rate in the mid rounds is no higher than any other general manager

And in recent years, Dennis Daley, Donte Jackson, Ian Thomas, Christian Miller, and Haynes look very promising

He's one of the 3 best drafters in the entire NFL, and not only in the 1st round

The names speak for themselves

In 13 years. Go back and look at the '11 and '12 draft classes. GMs aren't judged just by homeruns and strikeouts in the draft. Their biggest measure of judgement is their W-L record. Hurney is a sub-.500 career GM. Period.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

Yes he did

Maybe you're too young to know Panthers history, but it's well documented Hurney ran the 2001 draft and made the final call on those draft picks

Steve Smith has even talked about Hurney drafting him 

Marty ran the logistics of the draft. He was not in any way affiliated with the scouting department at that time. He was a cap specialist.

And he sure as hell didn't have final say on draft picks. That was George Seifert.

[Ricky Spanish]

Just now, bobowilson said:

This data set is incredibly flawed in that Hurney barely been a general manager the past decade, and the last two years he's been back, those guys are too young to have won any awards (for instance, DJ Moore is 4th in the NFL in receiving yards, and will be a Pro Bowler one day, but is only 22 years old)

So it's basically the past 2 drafts (which Hurney nailed, but they're to young to have gotten accolodates), and 2009-2010, which happen to be his two worst drafts of a very long career

I said multiple times it wasn't perfect and I did give credit for Moore. Too early to tell for everyone else, but there were rookies who won awards last year, but honestly, It's not looking great for a lot of them. 

[bobowilson]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You got a link to Smitty talking about that?

During his speech, Smith was emotional when talking about his time in Carolina. He ended by taking off his blazer and shirt which had his Super Bowl 38 No. 89 jersey underneath.

“I’d like to thank Mr. (Jerry) Richardson and Marty Hurney for drafting me and Mr. (David) Tepper for bringing me back,” Smith said during his induction speech

[bobowilson]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

In 13 years. Go back and look at the '11 and '12 draft classes. GMs aren't judged just by homeruns and strikeouts in the draft. Their biggest measure of judgement is their W-L record. Hurney is a sub-.500 career GM. Period.

Ok now go find me other GMs who have drafted or traded for that many Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers in the mid rounds over a 13 year span

If the GM you want to include has only done 9 drafts for instance, you can multiply 1.44x

Perhaps you can find a few, but not many

And regarding win loss record, it's very convenient that Hurney never got the enjoy the prime of Cam Neton

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, bobowilson said:

Ok now go find me other GMs who have drafted or traded for that many Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers in the mid rounds over a 13 year span

If the GM you want to include has only done 9 drafts for instance, you can multiply 1.44x

Perhaps you can find a few, but not many

And regarding win loss record, it's very convenient that Hurney never got the enjoy the prime of Cam Neton

Find me where the NFL gives out awards for drafting pro bowlers.

The only thing that matters is Super Bowl trophies.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

In 13 years. Go back and look at the '11 and '12 draft classes. GMs aren't judged just by homeruns and strikeouts in the draft. Their biggest measure of judgement is their W-L record. Hurney is a sub-.500 career GM. Period.

Another metric:  Our last two head coaches had their most successful seasons in the NFL under GMs not named Marty Hurney.  

[bobowilson]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Find me where the NFL gives out awards for drafting pro bowlers.

The only thing that matters is Super Bowl trophies.

There's a narrative that Hurney is trash outside of the 1st round, and we might as well forfeit the picks

I clearly demonstrate Marty Hurney acquired 2 Hall of Famers (Steve Smith, Olsen-trade), 5 Pro Bowlers (Jenkins, Norman, Hardy, Kalil, Mathis), and another guy that was a borderline pro bowler in Charles Johnson

Which is an incredibly impressive resume outside the 1st round, completely at odds with the lazy narrative people have invented.  Even if you only want to give him 70% credit or 50% credit for Steve Smith, it remains impressive.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

Ok now go find me other GMs who have drafted or traded for that many Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers in the mid rounds over a 13 year span

If the GM you want to include has only done 9 drafts for instance, you can multiply 1.44x

Perhaps you can find a few, but not many

And regarding win loss record, it's very convenient that Hurney never got the enjoy the prime of Cam Neton

You seem hellbent on only focusing on the positives. Even Hurney's biggest detractors should admit he's made some great picks. The problem is the consistency of them. He simply didn't make enough good picks, enough good FA moves, and enough good roster decisions to consistently field a winning NFL roster. That's what a GM's job is - field winning NFL rosters. 

[bobowilson]

2 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Another metric:  Our last two head coaches had their most successful seasons in the NFL under GMs not named Marty Hurney.  

Gettleman enjoyed the success of a prime Cam Newton that Hurney drafted;  you win or lose in the NFL by quarterback play

To show just how silly using 'win-loss' record as a metric to evaluate general managers, you can look at the New York Giants

They're 2-10, and have the worst record over the past few years of any team in the NFL.

So did Gettleman suddenly develop dementia and forget how to manage, or perhaps, wins and losses require a lot more context

Fox benefited from playing with Peyton Manning who was still at enough of his prime to win NFL MVP.