Smartest article I have read on this whole sitation.

[Thompcat]

Well with these ideas of old school plus analytics does narrow the choices for GM and a Head Coach, but who fits that the most inboth areas?

[PantherGuy]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't necessarily think Rivera is dumb, but I think it's quite possible he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

Agreed. He isn't dumb, but he isn't quite as smart as he thinks he is.

[Mr. Scot]

18 minutes ago, Thompcat said:

Well with these ideas of old school plus analytics does narrow the choices for GM and a Head Coach, but who fits that the most inboth areas?

Probably going to dig deeper into that sometime soon...

[tiger7_88]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That is kind of my thought, he will be repurposed to a different role and serve as a transitional guy until after this offseason. 

I'd wager a substantial amount he won't be involved in the 2021 offseason.

Indeed.

You would think that if an owner had a GM in which he held full confidence he would allow the GM to hire the next coach.

But every word out of Tepper's mouth is about the coach that "he" is going to hire.  Sounds to me like Tepper might listen to Hurney's advice in this regard but likely won't heed it very much.

[Prowler2019]

1 hour ago, ellis said:

He’ll run the college end of things, or he will be the transitional piece before making an exit. 

From folks I’ve talked to, I think he has sold Dave on his value. A big part of this job, the GM gig, is salesmanship: A lot of people in the organization jockeyed hard to get in Dave’s good graces real early. That’s not limited to the football operations side. Yes, that does include the media side. And that’s wise, as you don’t wanna be left out in the cold. 

Now, let me just reiterate: selling him on his value doesn’t mean he’s going to be in the same role if he stays. I think he will have a larger hand in the college scouting unit. A niche focus would do Marty well, if he stays. But whatever behemoth of an analytics department they’re going to build, that department will be what runs the organization.

If Marty stays, he will answer to the data and those who run it. The VP of football ops guy? I mean, that’s just Kevin Colbert all the way. But then again, nobody really knows anything yet. Fun to speculate.

I’ve been told, again and no one certain terms, David Tepper likes Marty.

As for the next coach:

For those who still question Jim Harbaugh: he’s made every program better. In fact, he’s made every program worlds better. His teams have lacked sustainability after his departure, with the exception of Stanford.

Ohio State doesn’t matter in the NFL. Bowl Games don’t matter in the NFL. He took San Francisco to three straight NFC championship games with Alex Smith and a very unknown commodity at the time in Colin Kaepernick. 

For those who say Jim is too hard to work with: Trent Baalke was the problem there. He got into a pissing contest with the head coach, and Jed York foolishly crowned him the winner. 

I have a laundry list of reasons why that coach makes sense for this organization, all the way down to the personnel fits. 

Will it happen? Again, who knows. Just don’t let people drive this “he can’t win the big one “narrative” up your ass. I don’t give a crap about Michigan or Ohio State. That’s their problem.

We’ll see what happens. I would be shocked if they hired somebody like Kevin Stefanski. I sense Dave wants an alpha male on the sidelines. He wants a hardnose, interactive HC with power principles in the running game and play action off of it. And then, he wants to mesh it with the modern age of analytics, and I’m telling you, he will probably put together the most impressive analytics department in sports. If those two things can mesh, with a healthy Cam in the same backfield as Christian McCaffrey? Yeah, you’ll have fun with that.

Great synopsis sir. And makes a lot of sense.As to the bold sentence - I wouldn't be surpised to see a repeat of what happened to Gettlemen - Marty remains through the draft and then departs or let go shortly thereafter. Of course, if Tepper wants to keep him aboard, a niche position, as you said, may suit him fine for the long-term.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Indeed.

You would think that if an owner had a GM in which he held full confidence he would allow the GM to hire the next coach.

But every word out of Tepper's mouth is about the coach that "he" is going to hire.  Sounds to me like Tepper might listen to Hurney's advice in this regard but likely won't heed it very much.

Tepper strikes me as a guy that will get a general consensus but ultimately is going to go with what he feels is best.

In regards to Hurney, I'd be a little surprised if he put much stock in his opinion on head coaches.

[chbright]

2 hours ago, Montsta said:

Baseball used to be solely about your slash line, RBI’s, Average, Dingers. Now nobody even looks at those and WAR is god. That right there is advanced metrics and analytics. The Moneyball A’s (though greatly exaggerated for Hollywood) found gems by using Walks+OBP when no one else was looking at it. 

If Tepper feels like getting a few nerds in the building to review that sort of stuff to find players that may be undervalued, or uses it with innovative coaches because there is some statistical advantage to going for it on 4th instead of punting, I’m all for it. Those small tweaks can be game changers. 

I don’t see the harm it could do. If the team is a doormat for a decade using his analytics then sure we can all get the pitchforks out. But the Panthers have been a ~.500 mediocre team forever. Doesn’t hurt to try a new way IMO. 

 

And we have nuts here on the huddle that would have fired Mr. Moneyball for a streak of loosing on the later 2000s. Billy Beane process works. His success forced others to adapt to use it, but instead of him being able to scoop up guys for peanuts, the other GM's started to find them the same way and have the budget to pay for it. 

Then he turned his eye to another way to build a roster that was neglected and again got back to the playoffs as a rum prevention focused team.

Unlike Beane, I think there are staffs and FOs in the NFL that are already waaaaaaay ahead of the game in terms of breaking down a guys value on a per play or seasonal basis vs raw fantasy football stat lines. I don't think one will be quite as willing to publish the how to book for everyone else.

[pantherclaw]

4 hours ago, Harbingers said:

Analytics IS mediocrity. I am not looking forward to the future of this team. 

As it can be used.to support ANY view point. 

There is some good that can come of it. 

Hopefully we won't become overly dependent on Analytics.  

[pantherclaw]

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Analytics is a big big deal for David Tepper, but you have to look at everything he said. He wants a mix of "old school discipline" in there as well.

Should mention, there's one message that comes out fairly clearly to me reading those comments.

Tepper thinks our current team is soft.

That's because it has gotten soft. 

[Montsta]

The trick with analytics is looking at data and statistical analysis objectively instead of viewing data and statistical analysis in a way to reinforce a bias. That’s the downfall of analytics. Like you can’t say 100% of 1920’s German art students that failed out of class turned into war criminal dictators, therefore let’s stay away from art school dropouts. You need a solid team of people to interpret data from an objective point of view, and use that objective view of statistical data to find an exploitable flaw in the system. That’s where modern analytics can help your team. 

I feel like Rivera WANTED the analytics to fail, and then when he went for it on 4th and 2 and failed he’d say see analytics is garbage. As an organization they need to get passed that mindset IMO, which I hope the new staff does. 

[Tbe]

4 minutes ago, Montsta said:

The trick with analytics is looking at data and statistical analysis objectively instead of viewing data and statistical analysis in a way to reinforce a bias. That’s the downfall of analytics. Like you can’t say 100% of 1920’s German art students that failed out of class turned into war criminal dictators, therefore let’s stay away from art school dropouts. You need a solid team of people to interpret data from an objective point of view, and use that objective view of statistical data to find an exploitable flaw in the system. That’s where modern analytics can help your team. 

I feel like Rivera WANTED the analytics to fail, and then when he went for it on 4th and 2 and failed he’d say see analytics is garbage. As an organization they need to get passed that mindset IMO, which I hope the new staff does. 

Exactly. What’s funny is using your “gut” is always 100% personal bias. 
 

Ron enjoyed the art of play calling. He liked going by feel. He was good at it at times, but it ultimately didn’t work out for him. Feel can be very misleading.

[BurnHurnBurn]

13 hours ago, Montsta said:

Baseball used to be solely about your slash line, RBI’s, Average, Dingers. Now nobody even looks at those and WAR is god. That right there is advanced metrics and analytics. The Moneyball A’s (though greatly exaggerated for Hollywood) found gems by using Walks+OBP when no one else was looking at it. 

If Tepper feels like getting a few nerds in the building to review that sort of stuff to find players that may be undervalued, or uses it with innovative coaches because there is some statistical advantage to going for it on 4th instead of punting, I’m all for it. Those small tweaks can be game changers. 

I don’t see the harm it could do. If the team is a doormat for a decade using his analytics then sure we can all get the pitchforks out. But the Panthers have been a ~.500 mediocre team forever. Doesn’t hurt to try a new way IMO. 

I'm fairly certain that you just described Bill Belichick.  He's done ok.

[Montsta]

3 hours ago, BurnHurnBurn said:

I'm fairly certain that you just described Bill Belichick.  He's done ok.

Hey man I’m with it. Sometimes businesses have to run lean. Other times they can employ some specialists that might be overpaid. If Tepper wants to open the wallet and pay some specialists I’m with it.  Not my money. 

[BurnHurnBurn]

6 hours ago, Montsta said:

Hey man I’m with it. Sometimes businesses have to run lean. Other times they can employ some specialists that might be overpaid. If Tepper wants to open the wallet and pay some specialists I’m with it.  Not my money. 

I poorly tried to support your post.  I was implying Tepper has Belichick traits that most here have praised for years.  I think you highlighted perfectly what Tepper has in mind.