Can we rebuild quickly without the 20 million cap savings?

[Bronn]

2 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

I do not believe a quick rebuild is possible, especially if we pay Cam 21m next year in the hopes he can actually play.

According to sportrac, we'll have around 49m in cap space after Olsen retires and we waive Poe, Moncrief, and Davis.

Now we need to replace Shaq, McCoy, Butler, Addison, Irvin, Bradberry, Van Roten, Boston, Olsen and Poe.  That's at least 8 starters.  We also have to fill out the bottom of our roster (5-10m) and pay our draft class (6m).  And this does nothing to address our porous OL and thin WR core.

It will take at least 2 really good drafts before we have a legit shot.  I think next year we'll be fortunate to win 6 games.  Why put Cam through a lame duck season?  Pull the band aid off (like we did with Rivera) and start the rebuild.  We can probably get a 2020 2nd and future 2nd and save that 19m.  

Spotrac was messed up earlier, because I was gonna mock it up for everyone.

We can make several moves that don't include doing anything with Cam and having around $68M or so.

If Shaq and Bradberry want to come back, we can bring them back on fair deals (read hometeam discounts.)

If the other vets like McCoy and Addison want to come back, same deal. If not, so be it.

It really is a matter of if we want to remain competitive, or if we want to wipe the slate clean. Keeping Hurney and the Turner's around in some capacity tells me that we are gonna try to stay competitive.

[KaseKlosed]

3 hours ago, pnthrs said:

The saints go into every offseason with little to no cap room and manage to make big splashes and build a perurenial winner.  Cams 20m is no excuse to not be competitive in other areas.  

This fanbase fails to realize no big splash players have Charlotte on their priority list to sign here.  Enjoy being below average for the next 5 years 

[rippadonn]

3 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

I do not believe a quick rebuild is possible, especially if we pay Cam 21m next year in the hopes he can actually play.

According to sportrac, we'll have around 49m in cap space after Olsen retires and we waive Poe, Moncrief, and Davis.

Now we need to replace Shaq, McCoy, Butler, Addison, Irvin, Bradberry, Van Roten, Boston, Olsen and Poe.  That's at least 8 starters.  We also have to fill out the bottom of our roster (5-10m) and pay our draft class (6m).  And this does nothing to address our porous OL and thin WR core.

It will take at least 2 really good drafts before we have a legit shot.  I think next year we'll be fortunate to win 6 games.  Why put Cam through a lame duck season?  Pull the band aid off (like we did with Rivera) and start the rebuild.  We can probably get a 2020 2nd and future 2nd and save that 19m.  

You try to win every year. Cam has #22,#12,#10 he's not wasting anything. People feel how they feel, as a player, you have a star QB at a discount? Why not get your new coach and go to battle next season. Re-sign McCoy. Heck, the way he's playing, keep Butler. The NFL cap is going up not down. Keep Pounding!

[ickmule]

45 minutes ago, firefox1234 said:

Lets not pretend these insiders have a mystical crystal ball. Using his statements to back your opinions is as empty as all the other opinions you have shot down.

Keep looking through those rose colored glasses......This team will be a bottom dweller for a few years. It lacks talent all across the board. 

[Bronn]

2 minutes ago, ickmule said:

Keep looking through those rose colored glasses......This team will be a bottom dweller for a few years. It lacks talent all across the board. 

Especially at QB if they move on from Cam Newton.

 

[thefuzz]

13 minutes ago, Bronn said:

It isn't deeply flawed, though.

We have a franchise QB we hope can return from injury. We have an okay backup and an unknown behind him.

We have some pieces on the OL that, with better coaching and decision making can be a good young foundation.

We have an emerging young WR that's getting tougher by the game. We have one of the better RB weapons the league has seen in a long time. We have a good young TE prospect that has been buried by poor coaching and scheme.

Our DL is going to take some work and some re-signings, etc. We'll need to try to keep Shaq or replace him in the LB area. Same with Bradberry in the secondary. But on defense, we have a lot of vets we can bring back on cheaper deals than most think.

Are you basically saying you want to tank and not pay any QB? If you want to pay someone other than Cam $20M, who is it gonna be? What are your options? It won't be a rookie, I can guarantee that.

I'm basing my analysis on what we KNOW to be true today, not what we hope to happen in the future.  Full Stop.

To address your posts with known things:

QB:  We have an injured QB on the last year of his deal who cannot stay healthy and has missed time over the course of the last two seasons.  We have no idea if he is willing to play out his deal.  We have no idea if he can get healthy, or if he can stay that way. We have no idea if he wants to be a Panther moving forward, and we have no idea if the new GM (assuming Hurney steps down like Tep mentioned) and HC will want Cam Newton as their QB moving forward.  All of that is fact.

We have exactly 1 player on our offensive line who has played legitimate snaps and has at least looked good.  Little and Daley are unknowns at this time.  I hope both of them will be good, again hope.

We have 1 good WR, and a question mark.  If Curtis takes the next step, we may be OK at WR, but I'm not counting on it.  Again hoping that's the case, but you can't bet on that.

Our D Line is either coming off injury, old, unsigned or a mixture of all three.  We will need to rebuild the D Line and we have no clue what scheme the next HC/DC will want to run.

LB is a question mark, and assuming we will be going back to a 4/3 we just cut Burns off at the knees, and if we stick with a 34 we may as well go ahead and trade Luke.  I cannot justify paying Luke and Shaq what it will cost to keep them both, and a likely new offensive minded coach probably won't either.

The secondary is full of holes.  Reid can't cover, Bradberry is a free agent, Jackson is talented, but doesn't really know football yet (major regression and that scares me....Bene anyone?) Boston is a free agent.  I mean, this is a mess.

 

That's the way that I currently see this team.

[firefox1234]

36 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

It really doesn't take a lot of assumptions to see that we have a deeply flawed roster, that is what he is looking at, and traditional wisdom is to not pay a veteran QB the kind of money Cam will require if going through a rebuild.

Just cause you think its obvious doesnt mean the FO can't and dont see it differently. 

[thefuzz]

15 minutes ago, firefox1234 said:

Just cause you think its obvious doesnt mean the FO can't and dont see it differently. 

If said front office is still manned and ran by Marty Hurney, I 100% agree with you.

Would be dumb, but this isn't a smart team.  We may be getting there though.

[pantherj]

We will not be able to rebuild quickly unless Cam returns healthy and playing well. Otherwise next season will be bad.

[pnthrs]

1 hour ago, KaseKlosed said:

This fanbase fails to realize no big splash players have Charlotte on their priority list to sign here.  Enjoy being below average for the next 5 years 

I have heard nothing to support that.  In fact I would think playing for a upper mid market team with a billionaire owner who is on the cusp of having the most state of the art facilities would be a big draw.  We aren't a total rebuild with MVPs on both sides of the ball.  

 

Plenty of big names go to bottom dwelling teams.  We aren't exactly a bottom dwelling team with the right leadership and a few tweaks.  

[grimesgoat]

2 hours ago, Bronn said:

Spotrac was messed up earlier, because I was gonna mock it up for everyone.

We can make several moves that don't include doing anything with Cam and having around $68M or so.

If Shaq and Bradberry want to come back, we can bring them back on fair deals (read hometeam discounts.)

If the other vets like McCoy and Addison want to come back, same deal. If not, so be it.

It really is a matter of if we want to remain competitive, or if we want to wipe the slate clean. Keeping Hurney and the Turner's around in some capacity tells me that we are gonna try to stay competitive.

I had to work around sportrac as it was doing some weird things.  Its possible the difference in our numbers is the dead cap we'll carry into next year.  10m for Kalil plus the dead money for Olsen, Poe, and Gano.  I don't know how retirement hits the cap.

Bottom line, we have a lot of needs and the players we need to compete (like mccoy, bradberry, shaq, etc.) will cost a lot.  I'd rather "rebuild" for a year (i.e. draft our QB of the future and give him some on-the-job training) and carry some money over into 2021.  Then we'll be ready to make our move.

[Forty-Eight]

9 hours ago, JARROD said:

So we going 0-16 next year?

man I’m taking a 2 year hiatus from football.

is Baseball fun to watch?

In the playoffs, yes

[Lucian]

9 hours ago, Bronn said:

JFC how come nobody else is allowed to interpret anything, but you can somehow use your mystical knowledge and believe that Cam won't play another snap here?

Stop being a contrarian just because. That's how people start reading ulterior motives into these discussions.

Cam isnt even showing up to the games to cheer his team mates. I think there is plenty to read i to that cam isnt coming back. And there are some of us that dont want him back because he in injury prone and no longer a dual threat as well. That doesnt mean they are 'racist' either. Some of us older cats have been watching football a long time and can see the signs while some of the younger less knowlegeable fanbase cant seem to get past 2015. You dont pay cam based on the past. You pay a co tract based on what they can do in the future. And cam cant stay healthy and cant take the hits anymore. He has never been accurate enough to be a pocket passer. He was good at the run option, and now he cant run anymore.

[ncsfinest21]

KK being back would help alot. I think this year we saw how much KK brings to the table. Ever since he got injured teams have ran on us at will. Alot of our problem is just about health overall. But Some areas on our team we are down to the 4th player in that position on the depth chart. I think everybody on our defense has been out atleast 1 or more games except Luke and Shaq.