Can we rebuild quickly without the 20 million cap savings?

[thefuzz]

4 minutes ago, Inimicus said:

Someone help me out here

 

I was under the impression that unless we trade or release Cam, he doesnt have a say in whether or not he is a Panther and that if he decided to sit out next season at some point in the season we would be grated rights to him in 2021.

Seems to me that If Cam wants to play anywhere he has to at least play out next year in Charlotte

You are correct that the Panthers have Cam under contract for 1 more season, and could potentially franchise tag him for 2 more.

However, Cam can completely make a mess if he wants out, and we don't figure out a way to make that happen.  He can hold out, he can retire, etc....that brings distractions, something a new coach, GM, and owner likely want to avoid.

By Cam waiting until now to opt to have surgery, that doesn't mean he has had it yet, it gives him a bit more leverage, and possibly frustrates the team enough to release him or trade him, even if that wasn't their goal from the start.

[Cpt slay a ho]

We don’t need the extra 20 mil, the opportunity cost is worth it given the upside of a healthy cam

we need to fix the interior line, Turner has underwhelmed since he’s been resigned. Don’t know if paradis will be better next year and van roten, although I like him, we need to upgrade if possible. Still have to see what we have in little and Daley at Lt long term and Moton has held the right side down mostly.

D line needs to figure out what scheme they are going to run and add the pieces to make it work. Via draft or fa.

after that I think the secondary should be a focus and maybe another WR who can allow Samuel and Moore to line up outside and in the slot at times. All this can be done with the cap space we have or can create, without needing cam’s 20 mil. This team could really do a 180 if the spending is in the right positions and we continue to draft well

[ickmule]

Just listened to Charley Casserly on FNZ, He's a pretty good source for what makes sense in any situation for an NFL team and he doesn't feel bringing Cam back makes sense for where this team is at the moment. He summed up the talent  on this team pretty well and like I have been telling you all, we are missing MANY pieces to actually be a serious contender. I'm not a Tepper fan, but I do believe he is smart and going to cut bait and rebuild from the ground up, hence his comments about the "messiah" and how this process will take time. Cam will be either retired or playing for another club next season. 

 

 

[kungfoodude]

15 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Those two statements really don't go together.

Either we are ripe for a rebuild or we are a piece or two away from a playoff run.  Anything less, and you are spinning your wheels and wasting everyones time.

Who the hell wants to be the Titans or some other 8-8 team.  Let's build a contender.

They do, IMO. A lot of that will depend on Cam. If we have a franchise QB to build around, then I think we have enough talent to be a contender. If we do not, I don't think what we have at QB or what we are likely to be able to obtain(through the draft or free agency) is going to be able to get us to contending status in the short term. But, so much hinges on the direction we opt to go in. Take our DL, for all the criticisms of Poe, Short, McCoy, etc....that is actually the bones of a serviceable and perhaps quite good DL. For our OL, that will need work, flat out. Or it will need some schematic adjustments to cover weaknesses. But we have(or can have depending on offseason decisions) a very solid defensive backfield and we still have one of the best linebackers in all of football.

My ultimate take, which could easily be wrong, is that this team is much more talented than the level that they have been playing at. But, conversely, a LOT of that talent happens to be either free agents or in periods of their contracts where they are easy to jettison without dramatic cap penalties.

So, that is why I say we can go in either direction. We have a "retool" option(IMO, which others may certainly disagree with) and a "rebuild" option. The question is what direction we decide to go in.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

They do, IMO. A lot of that will depend on Cam. If we have a franchise QB to build around, then I think we have enough talent to be a contender. If we do not, I don't think what we have at QB or what we are likely to be able to obtain(through the draft or free agency) is going to be able to get us to contending status in the short term. But, so much hinges on the direction we opt to go in. Take our DL, for all the criticisms of Poe, Short, McCoy, etc....that is actually the bones of a serviceable and perhaps quite good DL. For our OL, that will need work, flat out. Or it will need some schematic adjustments to cover weaknesses. But we have(or can have depending on offseason decisions) a very solid defensive backfield and we still have one of the best linebackers in all of football.

My ultimate take, which could easily be wrong, is that this team is much more talented than the level that they have been playing at. But, conversely, a LOT of that talent happens to be either free agents or in periods of their contracts where they are easy to jettison without dramatic cap penalties.

So, that is why I say we can go in either direction. We have a "retool" option(IMO, which others may certainly disagree with) and a "rebuild" option. The question is what direction we decide to go in.

I just disagree with you about our talent level, and don't think that Cam is going to come back to play for us, so I start everything there.

To address a couple of your points:

Poe, Short, McCoy:  All of them are old and likely cannot be counted on to both come back from injury, nor remain healthy.  Just part of the NFL.  Not only that but Poe will likely need to take a paycut, and McCoy will have to re-sign.  I don't think that happens if we are rebuilding, witch I fully think that we will be.

OL is simply a wreck, and we have 1 player who has shown to be good under contract moving forward, and that's only Moton.  Little and Daley are nothing more than hopes at this point, and I'm done "hoping" for a better offensive line.

"Very solid backfield" I don't buy for a single second.  Jackson is a highlight reel for both himself and the receivers he is supposed to be covering.  He has regressed this year, and that's with us being able to pressure the QB like crazy....which is alarming.  Bradberry is very good, and unsigned.  Reid is an in the box S that cannot cover, and Boston is just a guy, and a free agent.

Linebacker is Luke and some guys.  Thompson is unsigned.

QB is a complete mess right now.  We can all hope (getting tired of using that word) that Cam comes back, stays healthy and gets that big extension.  There is literally nothing pointing to this however, other than us wishing it were the case.

RB:  We are good.

TE:  We are a mess, GO is leaving and Ian has shown flashes.  Guess we are going to hope he's actually good?  Not ideal.

WR: We need another piece, likely a 2 unless Samuel can somehow all of a sudden put it all together.  Again hope.

 

[Proudiddy]

Yes.  And Tepper said that Cam's money isn't affecting us at all.

[ickmule]

2 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Yes.  And Tepper said that Cam's money isn't affecting us at all.

He also said no changes until the end of the year. He is saying what he needs to and no more. 

[Jmac]

49 minutes ago, rippadonn said:

As you guys already know, a franchise QB is the most valuable piece of a franchise.

We need to reload and fire. This isn't a flip the apple cart fire everybody guy. The FO has changed completely.

I like the fact Tepper kept Julius Peppers in the building. I'm sooooo glad he reached out to and embraced Smitty.

I like that he's giving Perry Fewell a chance to win the job as well as Scott Turner. We've often talked on this here site about all the head coach level guys already on staff. Smart move. Tepper gets to look at those two before throwing out the baby with the bathwater like an idiot.

The roster talent isn't far off from being legit. It may piss off a lot of people here but if Cam is healthy he'll be a piece that you won't need to rebuild for 5yrs. Cam has dominated in a tough league. Just the type of player Belicheat would snag and win a couple more SuperBowls with.

Jim Harbuagh makes sense and so does my man Chudzinski. Both could step in and keep the ball moving forward in my opinion.

I just would to see Cam and Chud together again, those were magical years of a guy who actually knew how to play call for and  design plays for our QB to dominate. That was fun. With this defense healthy, even better.

Reload.

 

Cams days of 45 yard laser beams down the field are probably over....those days with Chud are gone.

[The Lobo]

2 hours ago, Bronn said:

We will have enough space without doing anything with Cam to begin with.

Poe will be gone. Olsen is likely gone. A few others will be gone (Moncrief, Davis) that we don't even use and who will have no negative cap impact.

We can have around $60 Million without doing anything with Cam's contract.

Let him heal up. Let him return to the starting line up. If he balls out, extend him or get more in a trade for him. If he flops, his deal is up anyways and we can take whatever we can get for him before the trade deadline.

My only concern is, I have a feeling he won’t play unless he gets an extension. Extending him is the right move, but will the team do that? Everyone thinks he’s going to demand a HUGE deal, I don’t think he will. Wasn’t he last contract close to Tannehills at the time?

[kungfoodude]

33 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I just disagree with you about our talent level, and don't think that Cam is going to come back to play for us, so I start everything there.

To address a couple of your points:

Poe, Short, McCoy:  All of them are old and likely cannot be counted on to both come back from injury, nor remain healthy.  Just part of the NFL.  Not only that but Poe will likely need to take a paycut, and McCoy will have to re-sign.  I don't think that happens if we are rebuilding, witch I fully think that we will be.

OL is simply a wreck, and we have 1 player who has shown to be good under contract moving forward, and that's only Moton.  Little and Daley are nothing more than hopes at this point, and I'm done "hoping" for a better offensive line.

"Very solid backfield" I don't buy for a single second.  Jackson is a highlight reel for both himself and the receivers he is supposed to be covering.  He has regressed this year, and that's with us being able to pressure the QB like crazy....which is alarming.  Bradberry is very good, and unsigned.  Reid is an in the box S that cannot cover, and Boston is just a guy, and a free agent.

Linebacker is Luke and some guys.  Thompson is unsigned.

QB is a complete mess right now.  We can all hope (getting tired of using that word) that Cam comes back, stays healthy and gets that big extension.  There is literally nothing pointing to this however, other than us wishing it were the case.

RB:  We are good.

TE:  We are a mess, GO is leaving and Ian has shown flashes.  Guess we are going to hope he's actually good?  Not ideal.

WR: We need another piece, likely a 2 unless Samuel can somehow all of a sudden put it all together.  Again hope.

 

Yeah and if we fundamentally disagree on the talent level and on Cam returning, then from your point of view I can see why this would be a rebuild. I just happen to disagree about that and think there are the makings of a good, although perhaps not great team. 

Now, for the rebuild scenario, it's probably going to be ugly. And, quite honestly, if the intention is to not resign guys like Shaq, Bradberry, etc....I think you also look at moving CMC and Luke, as well. The value is not going to get higher than it is now and there is little hope of being able to build a contender around them before they are going to have their contracts come up again. 

But, that's also why I have expressed the trepidation about this offseason due to the massive amount of uncertainty. 

[kungfoodude]

20 minutes ago, The Lobo said:

My only concern is, I have a feeling he won’t play unless he gets an extension. Extending him is the right move, but will the team do that? Everyone thinks he’s going to demand a HUGE deal, I don’t think he will. Wasn’t he last contract close to Tannehills at the time?

There are a lot of variables there. Is Cam willing to return without a new deal? Does the team think he will ever be able to be healthy enough to last a full season? 

I do not think that extending him is wise. IF he returns it should be on the last year of that deal and basically on a "prove it" basis. Not prove he is capable of playing, but prove he can remain healthy. 

In a cut scenario(rather than a trade), I agree that he is not going to command a huge deal. Frankly, I would be willing to bet that he is going to be looking at a lot of "prove it" deals that do not pay him more than the $19 mil he would make his last year here. That's why I would be willing to return if I were him and if he isn't able to get a deal of at least that size. Come back, ball out and then the Panthers or whoever else are going to have to pay you a much larger salary.

[Bronn]

like I said in the second post in this thread:

The most logical thing to do right now is act as if Cam is going to be our QB next year and, hopefully for everyone including Cam, beyond.

For perspective, his money is pretty close to KK's in 2020. I don't see folks falling all over themselves to do something about KK's money.

People just genuinely don't like Cam, and/or want him to be done officially so they can have some sort of closure.

Thankfully, we're not operating based on personal feelings. We're going to make smart business decisions. No matter what they are.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, Bronn said:

like I said in the second post in this thread:

The most logical thing to do right now is act as if Cam is going to be our QB next year and, hopefully for everyone including Cam, beyond.

For perspective, his money is pretty close to KK's in 2020. I don't see folks falling all over themselves to do something about KK's money.

People just genuinely don't like Cam, and/or want him to be done officially so they can have some sort of closure.

Thankfully, we're not operating based on personal feelings. We're going to make smart business decisions. No matter what they are.

Disagree. 

The most logical thing to do right now is plan on Cam not being here, and if he is, great.  It's easy to plan for Cam staying, it's much harder to plan for Cam leaving, which is where I hope the team is putting their brains.

[firefox1234]

1 hour ago, ickmule said:

Just listened to Charley Casserly on FNZ, He's a pretty good source for what makes sense in any situation for an NFL team and he doesn't feel bringing Cam back makes sense for where this team is at the moment. He summed up the talent  on this team pretty well and like I have been telling you all, we are missing MANY pieces to actually be a serious contender. I'm not a Tepper fan, but I do believe he is smart and going to cut bait and rebuild from the ground up, hence his comments about the "messiah" and how this process will take time. Cam will be either retired or playing for another club next season. 

 

 

Lets not pretend these insiders have a mystical crystal ball. Using his statements to back your opinions is as empty as all the other opinions you have shot down.