Hurney 2.0 - The Best and The Worst moves

[Davidson Deac II]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yes, I still would have preferred McCown, but as Fuzz pointed out he wasn't the only option.

Throw in a different name if you want to, but it's kind of hard to dispute that a competent veteran backup would have been a really nice thing to have.

And seriously, how do you go into a season knowing your quarterback has injury issues without addressing the fallback options?

Mccown started three games last year.  1 td, 4 int's, 7 sacks.  With us this year, it might have been 0 td, 4 interceptions, 30 sacks, and four fumbles.  And I am being slightly sarcastic.  

Do you think Joe Flacco or Keenan Allen would have done better?  Those were the vet options as I remember. If you look at their performance this year, they haven't done better.   

I suppose we could have drafted Lamar Jackson a couple of years ago, but if we did, the vast majority of the fan base would have reacted with WTF.  

Hurney may or may not be gone, don't know.  But the fact is that once Cam went down, our playoff chances took a huge hit.  Kyle Allen's performance in a few games gave us hope, but in the end, the peformance or lack thereof in the trenches is what doomed us.  It was irrelevant who our backup QB was.  You could and perhaps should blame the line performance on Hurney, but I just don't see the issues with qb.  

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Did Bridgewater actually make it to the offseason or did the Saints wrap him up beforehand? I don't remember.

He looked good when he got the chance, but Lord have mercy his "audition" in Week 17 of last year was just awful.

Still could have gone after him based on Norv Turner's connection but I guess we didn't see the need since we had Kyle.

He made it.

The backups don't have to be great, but they do have to garner enough respect from Ron to play them over an ineffective Cam.  And while it was bad enough that Marty didn't do his job, it was even worse that he didn't put his foot down to Ron to try to save Cam from himself.  Just a brutal lack of planning and foresight, that possibly has us looking at a new QB here.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Mccown started three games last year.  1 td, 4 int's, 7 sacks. 

Do you think Joe Flacco or Keenan Allen would have done better?  Those were the vet options as I remember. If you look at their performance this year, they haven't done better.   

I suppose we could have drafted Lamar Jackson a couple of years ago, but if we did, the vast majority of the fan base would have reacted with WTF.  

Hurney may or may not be gone, don't know.  But the fact is that once Cam went down, our playoff chances took a huge hit.  Kyle Allen's performance in a few games gave us hope, but in the end, the peformance or lack thereof in the trenches is what doomed us.  It was irrelevant who our backup QB was.  You could and perhaps should blame the line performance on Hurney, but I just don't see the issues with qb.  

DD, you are a smart guy.  Can you really justify going into a season with a QB who couldn't stay healthy, a bad offensive line and no backup quarterback with any starting or playing experience?  To top it off, it was a farewell tour of some of our all time favorite players.

Can you justify the mindset of "Welp, if Cam goes down the season is trash anyway, so let's not even think about that scenario"?

 

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Mccown started three games last year.  1 td, 4 int's, 7 sacks.  With us this year, it might have been 0 td, 4 interceptions, 30 sacks, and four fumbles.  And I am being slightly sarcastic.  

Do you think Joe Flacco or Keenan Allen would have done better?  Those were the vet options as I remember. If you look at their performance this year, they haven't done better.   

I suppose we could have drafted Lamar Jackson a couple of years ago, but if we did, the vast majority of the fan base would have reacted with WTF.  

Hurney may or may not be gone, don't know.  But the fact is that once Cam went down, our playoff chances took a huge hit.  Kyle Allen's performance in a few games gave us hope, but in the end, the peformance or lack thereof in the trenches is what doomed us.  It was irrelevant who our backup QB was.  You could and perhaps should blame the line performance on Hurney, but I just don't see the issues with qb.  

I think you'd have to take into account that his last three starts were with the Jets. How frequently have you seen anybody be successful with them?

I'd also point out that I wouldn't have taken Teddy Bridgewater based on what I saw of hid play last year either, but look how that worked out?

As to the others, I'm not a fan of Joe Flacco and never have been, but he wouldn't have been a backup option anyway. Keenan Allen is a receiver. I'm not sure who you meant to refer to.

And yes, once Newton went down, our playoff chances took a huge hit.

But if we had been smarter about managing our roster, maybe that hit wouldn't have been quite so bad.

[bobowilson]

8 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Marty can't even win with his own players.

Took another GM to come in and build a complete team (on a shoestring).

Marty built rosters have one thing in common, paper thin and full of holes.

Marty does a lot of winning when Cam Newton is not hurt and not a rookie

11-5 in 2017

6-2 in 2018 before Cam got hurt vs Pittsburgh

If your argument is that Marty Hurney can't win with a rookie quartberack, then sure, not many people can

[NanuqoftheNorth]

3 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

Marty does a lot of winning when Cam Newton is not hurt and not a rookie

11-5 in 2017

6-2 in 2018 before Cam got hurt vs Pittsburgh

If your argument is that Marty Hurney can't win with a rookie quartberack, then sure, not many people can

No, my argument is Marty has a total of 3 winning seasons in 14 years.

That is pathetic, and so is anyone willing to defend such a horrendous record of failure.

[Davidson Deac II]

8 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

DD, you are a smart guy.  Can you really justify going into a season with a QB who couldn't stay healthy, a bad offensive line and no backup quarterback with any starting or playing experience?  To top it off, it was a farewell tour of some of our all time favorite players.

Can you justify the mindset of "Welp, if Cam goes down the season is trash anyway, so let's not even think about that scenario"?

 

I think that being a GM in the salary cap era is a matter of picking your poison.  You have limited cap space, and you have to choose where to spend them.  If we spend more cap space on a veteran qb, that means less to spend in other areas.  And I think that Marty and Ron's decisions this year related to the back up qb have proven to be ok.  In other areas not so much.  Kyle has played well enough to give us a shot to win in all but two of his starts.  In other areas the decisions made ranged from not good to absolutely horrid.   Our defensive line play regarding the run d and our pass blocking have both been horrid.  Marty and Ron should have done a better job addressing those, and that concerns me far more than our backup qb.  

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

Marty does a lot of winning when Cam Newton is not hurt and not a rookie

11-5 in 2017

6-2 in 2018 before Cam got hurt vs Pittsburgh

If your argument is that Marty Hurney can't win with a rookie quartberack, then sure, not many people can

Yeah, no matter how many times you say it, the past isn't going to be magically rearranged so that Marty Hurney ran the 2017 offseason.

I'm sure you'd love to credit Marty with drafting Christian McCaffrey, but sorry, didn't happen.

But hey, if we're going to break it down by half seasons, we can go back and do that in previous years and alter records pretty much any way we want to 

Except that doesn't really work. And let's be real: plenty of us knew we were a house of cards for the first half of the 2018 season anyway. That house Just came crashing down, as houses of cards are known to do.

Bottom line, kid: If you want to craft a better argument, you're really going to need to come up with a better strategy than trying to credit Marty with stuff he didn't do.

[bobowilson]

2 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

No, my argument is Marty has a total of 3 winning seasons in 14 years.

That is pathetic, and so is anyone willing to defend such a horrendous record of failure.

If you want to be intellectually dishonest and not give Hurney the bulk of the credit for the 2013, 2015, 2017 (given he drafted and traded for virtually all of our talent), then sure, you can twist it that way.

Anyone without an agenda to grind can be honest that he took a small market team to 2 separate Super Bowls with dozens of Pro Bowl draft picks and acquisitions.

He definitely had some bad years, but it was due to a rotation of bad quarterbacks.  Once he drafted Cam Newton, he was fired before he could ever enjoy his prime.  Once he came back, Cam Newton is injured.

 

[Davidson Deac II]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think you'd have to take into account that his last three starts were with the Jets. How frequently have you seen anybody be successful with them?

I'd also point out that I wouldn't have taken Teddy Bridgewater based on what I saw of hid play last year either, but look how that worked out?

As to the others, I'm not a fan of Joe Flacco and never have been, but he wouldn't have been a backup option anyway. Keenan Allen is a receiver. I'm not sure who you meant to refer to.

And yes, once Newton went down, our playoff chances took a huge hit.

But if we had been smarter about managing our roster, maybe that hit wouldn't have been quite so bad.

sorry, meant the guy who went to the skins, can't remember his name though.  

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

If you want to be intellectually dishonest and not give Hurney the bulk of the credit for the 2013, 2015, 2017 (given he drafted and traded for virtually all of our talent), then sure, you can twist it that way.

Anyone without an agenda to grind can be honest that he took a small market team to 2 separate Super Bowls with dozens of Pro Bowl draft picks and acquisitions.

He definitely had some bad years, but it was due to a rotation of bad quarterbacks.  Once he drafted Cam Newton, he was fired before he could ever enjoy his prime.  Once he came back, Cam Newton is injured.

You're seriously trying to give Marty credit for a team that was built three seasons after he was fired?

I'm sorry. I'm gonna need some time to laugh my ass off before I come back to this debate 

Please tell me you're trolling dude I really don't wanna think of anybody is actually dumb enough to believe this stuff.

[bobowilson]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

You're seriously trying to give Marty credit for a team that was built three seasons after he was fired?

I'm sorry. I'm gonna need some time to laugh my ass off before I come back to this debate 

When that team has 10 Pro Bowlers, and virtually every one of them was acquired by Hurney, then yeah, of course.

Unless you believe Kurt Coleman or Kaelin Clay were what stood in our way.

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

Judging a gm by his record is about as asinine as the people who kept screaming Kyle Allen is 5-0, when it was clear he had some flaws that were being covered by a defense playing well and cmc in mvp track. 

even worst is saying backup qb wasn’t address when even as poor as Kyle has played at times he has shown he is still one of the better backups in the league, defense has been atrocious lately and the op had numerous threads hyping up Allen prior to his downfall of you want to call it that. 

Also since some of you want to say Allen is still a “rookie” in terms of the nfl, if that is the case our record is still better than coaches who are fielding 1st round qbs this year(giants,cardinals,redskins).

even then if his worst moves are keeping gano and picking gaulden, who himself was his worst enemy, and signing paradis and Williams(who’s completely off the books next season) neither of the above are fireable offense and still may put hurney 2.0 in the top 10 of gm’s from a standpoint of roster building. 

lastly I can’t sit here and list a laundry list of reasons why Rivera needs to be fired than turn around a place that blame at the foot of the gm. However tepper is the only one who would know whether hurney tried moving on from Rivera or if he hitch his wagon to his success as a head coach , which if it’s the lather, than he’s set himself up to be canned with Ron 
 

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

When that team has 10 Pro Bowlers, and virtually every one of them was acquired by Hurney, then yeah, of course.

Unless you believe Kurt Coleman or Kaelin Clay were what stood in our way.

I believe your arguments have gotten so ridiculous that I seriously hope you're trolling.

If not, dude seriously...