Hurney should stay on with the Panthers...

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, Forty-Eight said:

How many GMs are you naming? Better give me 31 out of 32 bc Hurney is GOD remember. 

No. 

Again, you keep willfully ignoring the thread title, the OP, and what I've already pointed out to you. No one in this thread is asserting Hurney even deserves to keep his job. 

What YOU asserted is that drafting in the first is virtually a no brainer. At this point you are obviously and clearly misrepresenting my argument to avoid the flaw in your own. I never asserted Hurney was a god, only that YOUR assertion that first rounding drafting is easy and everybody does it well is not supportable on the facts. Plenty of GM's can't even get the first round right. 

I don't owe you 31 out of 32 or anything of the sort because I'm not asserting and never have the thing you allege. One of two things is possible here:

Either your reading comprehension is failing you or you're deliberately misrepresenting what I've stated, which is it?

[Forty-Eight]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

No. 

Again, you keep willfully ignoring the thread title, the OP, and what I've already pointed out to you. No one in this thread is asserting Hurney even deserves to keep his job. 

What YOU asserted is that drafting in the first is virtually a no brainer. At this point you are obviously and clearly misrepresenting my argument to avoid the flaw in your own. I never asserted Hurney was a god, only that YOUR assertion that first rounding drafting is easy and everybody does it well is not supportable on the facts. Plenty of GM's can't even get the first round right. 

I don't owe you 31 out of 32 or anything of the sort because I'm not asserting and never have the thing you allege. One of two things is possible here:

Either your reading comprehension is failing you or you're deliberately misrepresenting what I've stated, which is it?

Cmon show me the 31 out of 32 GMs that suck drafting in the 1st round. I’m not talking about the 1-2 guys you can think of. Exactly. Hurney isn’t the only guy digging up golds in the 1st. Go to sleep before you lose sleep

[1of10Charnatives]

Just now, Forty-Eight said:

Cmon show me the 31 out of 32 GMs that suck drafting in the 1st round. I’m not talking about the 1-2 guys you can think of. Exactly. Hurney isn’t the only guy digging up golds in the 1st. Go to sleep before you lose sleep

At this point it's clear you have zero interest in discussing the topic rationally. I've made my point clear. You're being pointlessly obtuse. Done with this conversation. No one here thinks Hurney is awesome, but you can't do nuance so you're just flailing. Bye.

[1of10Charnatives]

59 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He's fairly new, so I don't figure he's familiar with some of our "recidivists".

I'm thinking that one's Chuck,

My policy is regardless of prior reputation before I have a discussion with them I give everyone a chance to prove they can have a decent conversation. I have no problem shutting things down once they've thoroughly demonstrated conversing with them is pointless, but I don't prejudge that based on other's experiences beforehand. It costs me little to determine someone is engaging in small minded buffoonery, and can wind up being entertaining, so I consider it the fair thing to do. As always ymmv.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

My policy is regardless of prior reputation before I have a discussion with them I give everyone a chance to prove they can have a decent conversation. I have no problem shutting things down once they've thoroughly demonstrated conversing with them is pointless, but I don't prejudge that based on other's experiences beforehand. It costs me little to determine someone is engaging in small minded buffoonery, and can wind up being entertaining, so I consider it the fair thing to do. As always ymmv.

Well, you still seem to think I know what I'm talking about so naturally I have to question your judgment 

To my credit though, I do generally know my pop culture references.

[Doc Holiday]

43 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Well this is exactly what I posted In the other thread that you ignored then too. The original contract details

• $13M fully guaranteed at signing (signing bonus + 2017 salary)
• 2018 Option Bonus: $10M (must be exercised by 3/19/2018)
  If not exercised, the $10M converts to salary, and $11M 2018 salary fully guarantees
• $7M 2019 salary fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2019

See that bolded. That’s all that matters. What should Hurney have done in that situation? Please explain hoW we were not paying him 10M more after one year. Cmon....this should be easy if I’m so wrong. Tell you what. Let’s contact some guys at OTC or Sportrac and see who’s right. Or pick anyone here that knows the cap. There is a thread about it when the option was exercised. Clearly explained it all. Wanna see it too?

This is what we were arguing, even in your post you admitted I was right on everything but refused to recognize that Kalil's contract had a kill clause in it.

so now we are admitting that it existed?

what a twist. short story is we could have cut him for $11m in dead money and $17m in cap savings(Kill Clause). totally what should have been done. but we converted it to signing bonus and forced us to let Norwell and Star walk. Want me to continue?

You do realize that you now have admitted and pointed out that I was correct in what I was saying THE ENTIRE fuging TIME!!??!!!?

Like I said before I'm done arguing with you, you clearly refuse to recognize things that run counter to your argument. when before, you completely ignore the existence of a kill clause and yet somehow today link directly the the exact verbiage I was talking about the entire time.  for fug sake man this argument would have ended a while ago if you had just admitted that the kill clause existed in the first place!

 

[Moo Daeng]

Nah. We need a new hope

[BurnHurnBurn]

32 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

missing the point you are.

First off I am by no means arguing that Otah is not a bust, I am saying under the circumstances, it was an excellent pick at the time when it happened.  You have to look at it within the scope of what took place.

Not all picks hold the same value

this is one of the more common charts but there is no exact science.

https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/

essentially the Panthers spent 3 draft picks on Otah, one 1st(28th, 2009),  one second 43th and one 4th(109)

Going from the 28th overall pick in 2009, to the 19th pick in 2008 for only a 2nd and a 4th, may be from a value chart pick trade stand point one of the single best trades in NFL history.  That's what I'm saying. I'm talking right up there with what happened when Chicago bet the farm against themselves for Trubisky level value(well maybe not that good but you get the picture).

I understand what we received in trade(1st round pick). I understand what we gave in a trade(a future 1st round pick and the current years 1st).

The picks exist.  They don't disappear.  They do not become one entity.   

We are counting.  Like the purple pimp from Sesame Street,

1 ('08) ah ah  2 ('09) ah ah  2!  1st round picks were spent on Otah-ah-ah 

[Mr. Scot]

30 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

At this point it's clear you have zero interest in discussing the topic rationally. I've made my point clear. You're being pointlessly obtuse. Done with this conversation. No one here thinks Hurney is awesome, but you can't do nuance so you're just flailing. Bye.

FYI: Apparently he's not entirely sober tonight.

I'm not sure if that changes the tenor of your conversation or not.

[Doc Holiday]

7 minutes ago, BurnHurnBurn said:

I understand what we received in trade(1st round pick). I understand what we gave in a trade(a future 1st round pick and the current years 1st).

The picks exist.  They don't disappear.  They do not become one entity.   

We are counting.  Like the purple pimp from Sesame Street,

1 ('08) ah ah  2 ('09) ah ah  2!  1st round picks were spent on Otah-ah-ah 

................  You can count either 2008 or 2009, but not both. this is getting out of hand. It's simple Math, 1-1 does not = 2. 

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

This is what we were arguing, even in your post you admitted I was right on everything but refused to recognize that Kalil's contract had a kill clause in it.

so now we are admitting that it existed?

what a twist. short story is we could have cut him for $11m in dead money and $17m in cap savings(Kill Clause). totally what should have been done. but we converted it to signing bonus and forced us to let Norwell and Star walk. Want me to continue?

You do realize that you now have admitted and pointed out that I was correct in what I was saying?

 

 

You can’t be this ignorant.. Where did I say there is a kill clause? Where does any credible source say it. Just one. Because I’m willing to go to whatever expert you choose and we can find out. There was only the 10M option that was discussed over and over again. 
 

  How did Hurney take this “clause” out if it was there. What were the procedures. Because I can show in exact detail what he actually did? My proof is direct details from the original contract and yours is “if I say kill clause enough it will come true”. And an article where the writer knows little to nothing about the salary cap. Just tell me how he did it.  Did he just do it to spend money for shits and giggles? If I’m so wrong, it should be easy to tell me all about it. I’ll wait....

[BurnHurnBurn]

@Doc Holiday Here's the rub... this particular sequence of events, coupled with the upcoming Arizona debacle/Jake Extension/Opener vs Philly gauntlet that also gave us Everette Brown and Jimmy Clausen is one of the most vivid and  (sports) painful times of my fandom.  It is etched into my brain like war flash backs.  If ever given the chance, I'm certain cupping the side of Marty Hurney's face in the palm of my hand with a Griffey Jr swing would give me the inner peace of a thousand monks.

[Doc Holiday]

2 minutes ago, BurnHurnBurn said:

@Doc Holiday Here's the rub... this particular sequence of events, coupled with the upcoming Arizona debacle/Jake Extension/Opener vs Philly gauntlet that also gave us Everette Brown and Jimmy Clausen is one of the most vivid and  (sports) painful times of my fandom.  It is etched into my brain like war flash backs.  If ever given the chance, I'm certain cupping the side of Marty Hurney's face in the palm of my hand with a Griffey Jr swing would give me the inner peace of a thousand monks.

Just drink more beer and call it a day man, the Panthers intentionally tanked the 2010 season, I knew it before hand and honestly only watched 3 games that year, yeah it sucked, but it also got us Cam.  dont hang on to the bad times too much, and enjoy the good times when theyre here.

[Doc Holiday]

7 minutes ago, Toomers said:

You can’t be this ignorant.. Where did I say there is a kill clause? Where does any credible source say it. Just one. Because I’m willing to go to whatever expert you choose and we can find out. There was only the 10M option that was discussed over and over again. 
 

  How did Hurney take this “clause” out if it was there. What were the procedures. Because I can show in exact detail what he actually did? My proof is direct details from the original contract and yours is “if I say kill clause enough it will come true”. And an article where the writer knows little to nothing about the salary cap. Just tell me how he did it.  Did he just do it to spend money for shits and giggles? If I’m so wrong, it should be easy to tell me all about it. I’ll wait....

ROFL this guy. I fuging spelled it out for you and youre still like "WTF are you talking about"? go see a therapist man you need one.

my article was from USA today, if that isnt credible then what the fug is.