Hurney should stay on with the Panthers...

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Doc Holiday said:

No, I'm bored, Panthers seasons gone to the shitter, sometimes you just have to stir the pot and liven up the place a bit lol

Fair enough 

If I'm bored at a time like this I might do research, but that's just me.

[Doc Holiday]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's a bit of semantics there.

I always look at it as whatever picks we trade to move up count as being used to take that particular player. I can see viewing it differently if you trade down, but not up.

I think that's probably most people, but if you don't see it that way I guess that's just a difference of opinion.

it's just the way I see it 1 first round pick traded for 1 first round pick is a wash, the fact that we basically moved up 1 year for essentially a 2nd and a 4th is pretty amazing to me. 

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

What would be the chances of a guy who fell on the sword to save a coach's job turning around and firing him though?

Hell, Hurney didn't even fire John Fox. He just let his contract expire. And from what I've heard, Fox made an absolute ass of himself in the building that season. Even his wife was said to have come in and made a scene.

Right--personal loyalties vs. the best decisions for the team.  Emotions.

I nearly made the same point about Fox. 

So if MH does not want the suffer the same fate, he needs to step up, do what must be done.  If he feels loyalty to RR, then he needs to get out.

[Doc Holiday]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fair enough 

If I'm bored at a time like this I might do research, but that's just me.

I really just want this season to end and us fire Hurney and Rivera, that's when this will get interesting to me again, not before then! 

On the flip side this vikings v seahawks game is pretty good!

[Doc Holiday]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fair enough 

If I'm bored at a time like this I might do research, but that's just me.

I also should be doing school work right now but I just didnt feel like it tonight haha

[BurnHurnBurn]

1 minute ago, Doc Holiday said:

it's just the way I see it 1 first round pick traded for 1 first round pick is a wash, the fact that we basically moved up 1 year for essentially a 2nd and a 4th is pretty amazing to me. 

No, see we already had a 1st round pick and used it on Stewart.  

We now have used all of our 1st round picks for the 2008 draft.

Hurney trades away the 2009 1st round pick (of unknown value) and MORE to get a 2nd selection in the 2008 draft.

We now have a 2nd pick in the 1st round and we choose Otah.

By my count we sank no less than 4 draft picks into Jeff Otah and his 1 year.

[Mr. Scot]

I will grant that a season can become a real grind when you know you're not going anywhere.

This is the kind of situation I always think about whenever I hear the NFL trying to sell fans on an 18 game schedule.

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

You were saying that there wasnt a kill clause in Kalil's contract and there was(Before Hurney removed it), I pointed out said fact and you refused to recognize it. Nothing more to say on the matter, youre the one who keeps posting it as if you won the argument, you only simply chose to ignore what I was saying. ignoring did not equal winning.

Btw the link bellow talks about that thing you pretended didn't exist. man you really should have googled it like I told you too

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/26/panthers-change-matt-kalils-contract-but-get-no-cap-savings/

Yeah this is where the thug life sunglasses come out. ROFL

Well this is exactly what I posted In the other thread that you ignored then too. The original contract details

• $13M fully guaranteed at signing (signing bonus + 2017 salary)
• 2018 Option Bonus: $10M (must be exercised by 3/19/2018)
  If not exercised, the $10M converts to salary, and $11M 2018 salary fully guarantees
• $7M 2019 salary fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2019

See that bolded. That’s all that matters. What should Hurney have done in that situation? Please explain hoW we were not paying him 10M more after one year. Cmon....this should be easy if I’m so wrong. Tell you what. Let’s contact some guys at OTC or Sportrac and see who’s right. Or pick anyone here that knows the cap. There is a thread about it when the option was exercised. Clearly explained it all. Wanna see it too?

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Right--personal loyalties vs. the best decisions for the team.  Emotions.

I nearly made the same point about Fox. 

So if MH does not want the suffer the same fate, he needs to step up, do what must be done.  If he feels loyalty to RR, then he needs to get out.

Or you could take the Jerry Richardson philosophy that personal loyalty is what's best for the team.

[1of10Charnatives]

40 minutes ago, Forty-Eight said:

LOL LOL and LOL

https://impact89fm.org/72137/sports/where-are-they-now-matt-millens-first-round-draft-picks/

or, just to pull a name out of a hat, have a look at the Jet's first round picks during Mike Tannenbaum's tenure from 2006 to 2012.  He did have Darrelle Revis and Nick Mangold on his resume, but um, there's some other guys he drafted in the first too...

Vernon Gholston

Dustin Keller

Mark Sanchez

Kyle Wilson

That's four pretty forgettable first rounders in a 7 year tenure from a guy who also proved capable of drafting multiple All Pro players in the first, so laugh all you want, but no, drafting in the first is not some no brainer thing that anybody can do. A big part of the reason why some perenial doormats are perenial doormats is because they have GM's who can't even get the first round right, let alone the rest of the draft.

 

[Doc Holiday]

1 minute ago, BurnHurnBurn said:

No, see we already had a 1st round pick and used it on Stewart.  

We now have used all of our 1st round picks for the 2008 draft.

Hurney trades away the 2009 1st round pick (of unknown value) and MORE to get a 2nd selection in the 2008 draft.

We now have a 2nd pick in the 1st round and we choose Otah.

By my count we sank no less than 4 draft picks into Jeff Otah and his 1 year.

missing the point you are.

First off I am by no means arguing that Otah is not a bust, I am saying under the circumstances, it was an excellent pick at the time when it happened.  You have to look at it within the scope of what took place.

Not all picks hold the same value

this is one of the more common charts but there is no exact science.

https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/

essentially the Panthers spent 3 draft picks on Otah, one 1st(28th, 2009),  one second 43th and one 4th(109)

Going from the 28th overall pick in 2009, to the 19th pick in 2008 for only a 2nd and a 4th, may be from a value chart pick trade stand point one of the single best trades in NFL history.  That's what I'm saying. I'm talking right up there with what happened when Chicago bet the farm against themselves for Trubisky level value(well maybe not that good but you get the picture).

[Forty-Eight]

4 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

https://impact89fm.org/72137/sports/where-are-they-now-matt-millens-first-round-draft-picks/

or, just to pull a name out of a hat, have a look at the Jet's first round picks during Mike Tannenbaum's tenure from 2006 to 2012.  He did have Darrelle Revis and Nick Mangold on his resume, but um, there's some other guys he drafted in the first too...

Vernon Gholston

Dustin Keller

Mark Sanchez

Kyle Wilson

That's four pretty forgettable first rounders in a 7 year tenure from a guy who also proved capable of drafting multiple All Pro players in the first, so laugh all you want, but no, drafting in the first is not some no brainer thing that anybody can do. 

 

How many GMs are you naming? Better give me 31 out of 32 bc Hurney is GOD remember. 

[onmyown]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Which is what I was mentioning earlier.

You'll note here that I referred to this in the very post you quote here as a theory that some people were talking about. There are also opposing viewpoints listed there, such as the part that about knowing that Gettleman wasn't a yes man like Hurney.

Feel free to read through the post very closely and quote where I said I believed it.

Otherwise, the most logical confusion is that you simply didn't understand what you were reading but ran with it anyway.

(wouldn't be the first time) 

 

fug theory. I have no problem going on record saying Gettleman signed Kalil due to being forced by JR. He also made him give TD and Olsen extensions after their whining. I’ve watched and read about this organization for over two decades. JR meddled like hell.These moves has his stink all over it and not like Gettleman at all. JR most certainly hated Gettleman business ways and loved Hurneys yes man Good ol boy ways.

Those who say otherwise are either just new being a fan of the team Or have a hard time in life connecting dots and reading the small details between the lines the entire time JR was owner. He was the silent keep quiet owner who fired anyone who gave away too much so we never knew much and everything was kept in house, including his illegal harassment, which I guarantee you was kept quiet by some players or employees.

 

fug that dude

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, onmyown said:

fug theory. I have no problem going on record saying Gettleman signed Kalil due to being forced by JR. He also made him give TD and Olsen extensions after their whining. I’ve watched and read about this organization for over two decades. JR meddled like hell.These moves has his stink all over it and not like Gettleman at all.

Those who say otherwise are either just new being a fan of the team Or have a hard time in life connecting dots and reading the small details between the lines the entire time JR was owner. He was the silent keep quiet owner who fired anyone who gave away too much so we never knew much and everything was kept in house, including his illegal harassment, which I guarantee you was kept quiet by some players or employees.

fug that dude

I grant it's possible. I just don't think it's something you can definitively say is true.

Realistically, there are probably only two people who could actually answer the question and I seriously doubt either of them is talking about it anytime soon.

What makes it hard for me to buy into the idea is that Gettleman definitely was not a yes man. I'd say that's probably a big reason why he wasn't retained.

As was discussed earlier in the thread though, I think GMs still bear responsibility for their decisions even if they were done at the behest of the owner. Being a yes man is still something that you choose to do.

Regarding your opinion of Jerry Richardson though, no argument here.