In Depth Analysis of the Panthers Roster

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think it was Igo who said McCaffrey stays and anybody else is optional.

I think you do have to keep Luke but put him back in a 4-3 and hope the system was the real problem.

I'd really love to keep James Bradberry.

Beyond that, most of the other names are about 50/50. I could see keeping some of them but I also wouldn't scream if we let them go.

I keep coming back to only a few players.

Bradberry.  Moton (I think), CMC, Luke.

That's ummmmm, not good.

Our biggest issues are running the ball (O Line), stopping the run (D Line), and helping the QB stay upright (O Line), and we have 1 maybe that play on either of those units to build around moving forward.

 

Not ideal.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

Who is your core, and are they signed longterm already?

That's the major issue I have with folks saying that they don't want to tear it down.  Well, what player are currently on the roster that you want to build around?  I see very few.

Defense

Luke(Under contract through 2021)

Bradberry(UDFA)

Jackson(rookie deal through 2021)

Brian Burns(rookie deal through 2022)

 

I'd keep some stop gap players from the current crop of DL to bridge the gap to building that unit up. I'd also keep Cockrell(UDFA).

 

Offense

CMC(rookie deal through 2020)

DJ Moore(rookie deal through 2021)

 

Figure out what is starting material and backup material on the OL from Daley, Little, GVR, Moton. 

 

Basically the rest of the roster is flexible. I'd consider keeping Shaq if the price is reasonable, if not, let him go. Same with basically the entire DL. I agree we don't have a big core to build around. We have a bigger group of "maybe" players that could end up as core players but that would have to be evaluated by the new FO and coaching staff. If you can piece together a roster from that, make some good free agent signings and make good 1-4 round picks consistently, we can build ourselves back to an NFC South contender. The biggest issue is going to have to be an entire rebuilding of the OL and DL. That can't be done in 1-2 offseasons. That is going to take a concerted effort over a few years. The QB....that is going to be a crapshoot. If Cam is truly done here, we are probably best looking for an NFL journeyman that can buoy us long enough to find a rookie QB. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I keep coming back to only a few players.

Bradberry.  Moton (I think), CMC, Luke.

That's ummmmm, not good.

Our biggest issues are running the ball (O Line), stopping the run (D Line), and helping the QB stay upright (O Line), and we have 1 maybe that play on either of those units to build around moving forward.

 

Not ideal.

Four players out of a roster of sixty plus...

Yeah, that's...sad.

What's even sadder is that I don't really have much to argue against that take.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Four players out of a roster of sixty plus...

Yeah, that's...sad.

What's even sadder is that I don't really have much to argue against that take.

Out of 53 but it is not ideal. That said, the "core" of most NFL teams is pretty small. You can't have a roster of superstars and be able to afford it for very long. You pick the critical components and find other solid players to rotate in and out as needed. That's why having a good GM is so important and why this franchise has been so bad over the years. We've never really had a good GM.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Out of 53 but it is not ideal. That said, the "core" of most NFL teams is pretty small. You can't have a roster of superstars and be able to afford it for very long. You pick the critical components and find other solid players to rotate in and out as needed. That's why having a good GM is so important and why this franchise has been so bad over the years. We've never really had a good GM.

I was counting guys on injured reserve, practice squad and such.

And I've said before I think it's all about the combo. For whatever reason, Gettleman and Rivera worked.

Hurney and Rivera? Yikes.

 

[thefuzz]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Defense

Luke(Under contract through 2021)

Bradberry(UDFA)

Jackson(rookie deal through 2021)

Brian Burns(rookie deal through 2022)

 

I'd keep some stop gap players from the current crop of DL to bridge the gap to building that unit up. I'd also keep Cockrell(UDFA).

 

Offense

CMC(rookie deal through 2020)

DJ Moore(rookie deal through 2021)

 

Figure out what is starting material and backup material on the OL from Daley, Little, GVR, Moton. 

 

Basically the rest of the roster is flexible. I'd consider keeping Shaq if the price is reasonable, if not, let him go. Same with basically the entire DL. I agree we don't have a big core to build around. We have a bigger group of "maybe" players that could end up as core players but that would have to be evaluated by the new FO and coaching staff. If you can piece together a roster from that, make some good free agent signings and make good 1-4 round picks consistently, we can build ourselves back to an NFC South contender. The biggest issue is going to have to be an entire rebuilding of the OL and DL. That can't be done in 1-2 offseasons. That is going to take a concerted effort over a few years. The QB....that is going to be a crapshoot. If Cam is truly done here, we are probably best looking for an NFL journeyman that can buoy us long enough to find a rookie QB. 

This is my point though about a teardown.  Jackson isn't good, not terrible, but not good either.  Burns is a nice piece, but what defensive scheme is the next DC going to favor?  The one that Burns can play in, or the one that Luke can play in?

So, we have no offensive or defensive linemen to build around, 1 good corner, 1 great RB, 1 great MLB in the wrong scheme, and 1 good WR who may be able to take the next step moving forward.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

This is my point though about a teardown.  Jackson isn't good, not terrible, but not good either.  Burns is a nice piece, but what defensive scheme is the next DC going to favor?  The one that Burns can play in, or the one that Luke can play in?

So, we have no offensive or defensive linemen to build around, 1 good corner, 1 great RB, 1 great MLB in the wrong scheme, and 1 good WR who may be able to take the next step moving forward.

Ouch.

[thefuzz]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Four players out of a roster of sixty plus...

Yeah, that's...sad.

What's even sadder is that I don't really have much to argue against that take.

It's very unfortunate, and something that some of us could see coming a mile away.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

This is my point though about a teardown.  Jackson isn't good, not terrible, but not good either.  Burns is a nice piece, but what defensive scheme is the next DC going to favor?  The one that Burns can play in, or the one that Luke can play in?

So, we have no offensive or defensive linemen to build around, 1 good corner, 1 great RB, 1 great MLB in the wrong scheme, and 1 good WR who may be able to take the next step moving forward.

 

Yeah and it's also possible that we have more on the roster than it looks like. The one thing that is painfully obvious this season is that our coaching staff is not putting our players in a position to be successful. It's entirely possible that guys like Turner, Paradis, Short, Thompson, etc, etc. all look much better under a coaching staff that is more suited to getting the best out of their personnel rather than trying to repeatedly pound square pegs into round holes(a Ron Rivera staple). 

At some level, I think the roster situation is not as dire as the current coaching staff seems to be making it look. But, I think we will see what a new front office and coaching staff are able to do.

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah and it's also possible that we have more on the roster than it looks like. The one thing that is painfully obvious this season is that our coaching staff is not putting our players in a position to be successful. It's entirely possible that guys like Turner, Paradis, Short, Thompson, etc, etc. all look much better under a coaching staff that is more suited to getting the best out of their personnel rather than trying to repeatedly pound square pegs into round holes(a Ron Rivera staple). 

At some level, I think the roster situation is not as dire as the current coaching staff seems to be making it look. But, I think we will see what a new front office and coaching staff are able to do.

You are being nice, hopeful, fan'ish, or however you want to look at it to be honest.  Like I said in another thread, we overvalue our own players because we know them and like them.  Paradis can't play.  Short is long in the tooth.  Shaq and Bradberry could decide to walk, or we may not be able to afford them.  IMO, I don't think that you can break the bank for Shaq, as we will be rebuilding, and you just can't pay LB's in the NFL the kind of money that he and Luke will command.

The shelves are pretty bare at some of the most important, and hardest to fill positions on a football team.

[Chief Keek]

Not many names on that list to be excited about, heck some of them wouldn't even make another roster in the NFL.

B-b-ut muh Hurney and his great first round picks.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

You are being nice, hopeful, fan'ish, or however you want to look at it to be honest.  Like I said in another thread, we overvalue our own players because we know them and like them.  Paradis can't play.  Short is long in the tooth.  Shaq and Bradberry could decide to walk, or we may not be able to afford them.  IMO, I don't think that you can break the bank for Shaq, as we will be rebuilding, and you just can't pay LB's in the NFL the kind of money that he and Luke will command.

The shelves are pretty bare at some of the most important, and hardest to fill positions on a football team.

I'm being realistic in that perhaps this slide does not really reflect the individual abilities of our players, nor the overall level of talent on the roster. It's also possible that it does. I think we have enough talent to be a much better team than the way we are performing currently. 

Regardless, you aren't going to be successful as a team when you are getting destroyed in the trenches week in and week out and do not have an elite QB to bail you out all the time. 

We'll see what happens in the offseason. I'd be lying if I said I was looking forward to it. 

[thefuzz]

27 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I'm being realistic in that perhaps this slide does not really reflect the individual abilities of our players, nor the overall level of talent on the roster. It's also possible that it does. I think we have enough talent to be a much better team than the way we are performing currently. 

Regardless, you aren't going to be successful as a team when you are getting destroyed in the trenches week in and week out and do not have an elite QB to bail you out all the time. 

We'll see what happens in the offseason. I'd be lying if I said I was looking forward to it. 

Are you really being realistic, or are you hoping?  There is a difference.  The hoping part comes in when people bring up Hurney 2.0, and the fact that he could have learned from his previous mistakes, that's hoping.  But most people know that humans don't really like to change, and don't automatically get better at their jobs after talking into microphones.  Or that Ron could all of a sudden be a quick thinker, would get better at game management, would all of a sudden change and start younger players over veterans, would suddenly understand offensive line play, etc....it was all hope. 

Now the actuality has happened.  We realized that we have an older roster, tons of guys unsigned long term, of the few that are signed long term, a couple of those can't or don't want to play football any longer, and we have nothing on the offensive or defensive lines to build around moving forward.  We F'd ourselves, but there was always hope....

 

 

That bolded sentence is SO very confusing to me.  So you were looking forward to this season?  There was a much better than not chance that this is exactly what would happen this season....I mean the writing was on the wall for goodness sake.

This offseason is the first that I'm looking forward to since 2010, at least hopefully the team will be trying to get better.

 

[tiger7_88]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Oh the amount of expiring contracts and decisions on younger players coming this offseason and next are absurd. Pretty much every player on the roster is going to be coming up on a new deal.

This is a critical offseason to see where the owner sees us as a franchise. If he can get a GM and HC that can steady the ship, I think that is possible. But if we decide to nuke the whole thing and begin true rebuilding? Boy.......it could get ugly really fast. I mean Bengals ugly and not for a season or two, for a while. 

Hopefully the new GM will see that he can save $5.5M on the cap if he cuts Reid with a post-June 1 designation.